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Message: <blockquote data-quote="daviddalbec" data-source="post: 7513794" data-attributes="member: 6842418">This is why I previously said it was up to the DM to determine what a PC would likely be aware of. Proximity and time factor in, but then so does the type of hidden thing in the environment. My tribal druid PC would not have false-books on his radar for example (in passive perception or investigate), but the wizard or rogue might. Maybe it's partially my PC-friendly DMing style, and disinterest in testing player-skill, but I tend to have a lot of leniency for what a PC's passive might register. Basically it's for when the PCs enter any room, I don't want the players to have to go through some list of premeditated inqueries, like in some ADnD player-skill based game. I assume by the habit of the character that the wizard's eyes are pulled towards the bookshelf, the druid to the mushrooms, the rogue to the lockbox. Whether anyone's paying particular attention to smells and would pick up on Solid Snake hiding under a box on the other side of the room, maybe, but probably not in the first few seconds when they're just in the doorway. If a player always asks "what do I smell" when they enter a new room, then I'd start understanding that it's a habit being repeated by that PC, so I'd maybe consider it the first thing that registers to their passive.I'd try to avoid situations where the PCs enter the room and their passive immediately exposes a perfect picture of everything in that room up to some DC. It's up to the DM to be sensible about which characters are aware of what in any circumstances. I suppose you could codify this with every hidden object saying "if the PC is within LoS, within 10', for more than 1 turn, with proficiency in History, etc., then a PP or PI of 15 will detect the false book on the shelf" but that seems needless. PCs are constantly looking for things out of the ordinary, but what first strikes them as out of the ordinary surely differs."When your character searches for a hidden object such as a secret door or a trap, the DM typically asks you to make a Wisdom (Perception) check. Such a check can be used to find hidden details or other information and clues that you might *otherwise overlook*.In most cases, you need to describe where you are looking in order for the DM to determine your chance of success."I'm basically saying there are many things your characters wouldn't "otherwise overlook".</blockquote>

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