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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7331198" data-attributes="member: 6880599">I use perception (Wisdom) to see things, spot something out of place maybe a trip maybe just an interesting detail.I use investigation (Intelligence) to check for the hidden or function of something.So traps. Player is walking along at half speed, "Looking for traps". I prefer passive perception to notice something out of place, a tile, an arrow slit, a trip wire. Passive because it is continual and the player doesn't know its there. On any trap the player misses, while "looking for traps" I allow the first player PC with perception skill a perception (wisdom) check to see it on top of that, with advantage if their are 2 "scouts" walking together up front. No additional chances or checks.If a player is expecting a trap, like on a door or chest, but can't see it because it is internal for example. I let them make a investigation (Intelligence) check to notice/figure out the trap. If a player is "checking the room for hidden secrets" with no target to search, I will let 1 player with proficiency in perception(wis) check for things out of place and one with proficiency in investigation(int) make a check. The checks are independent of each other but the perception always goes first, if the percerption (wis) check "finds something out of place" the investigation(Int) check gets target DC reduced by 5. Both maybe aided if declared by allies proficient in those skills for advantage on the test or its assumed the other players are just randomly looking around and killing time waiting for the search to be finished. For the Orc scenario, I use passive perception of the highest skill for patrols but if the highest AND at least one other member are both proficient in perception then I give +5 to that passive search and players roll to stealth that score as a group, at least half must succeed or the group fails, a natural 20 means you "aid" the stealth of another who failed and they pass (players choice), a natural 1 means you hinder the effort of a team mate who passed and they fail (GMs choice, but not someone who rolled a 20). If the group is discovered, I allow anyone who passed to attempt to remain hidden with a standard opposed test Orc patrol active test (possibly with aid) vs the individual stealth tests of the passing players. It doesn't really slow things down much since the Orc group might get one roll and the players might roll twice at the same time but if that happens only some will roll the second time.  An orc patron can be considered to be looking for your group or not but I still allow passive if your just coming across them, if they were following you, ambushing, or waiting at a location they knew you would be then I give them an active check to begin with. If they are just trying to spot you while your "stealth" around in motion perception(wis) if your "hidden" in place and they are searching for you investigation (Int), if your hiding/stealthy in motion outdoors and at least one is proficient they can use survival(wis) to track you. They only get 1 search of the highest skill and can only "aid/help" for advantage if at least one character trying to aid has the same skill. I use the exact same system in reverse for players searching for NPCs.That's my take on it anyway.</blockquote>

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