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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6510985" data-attributes="member: 2011">True, but why just get rid of one of the problems? Why not get rid of both?Just describe the room and see what the players do. If the players search actively, then assign them active rolls. If one PC does something unique or special, just give him an active roll. Don't allow players to re-roll, just because someone rolled low (i.e. the Rogue rolled low, so the Fighter tries). Also, shift some of the active rolls from Perception to Investigation.The problem with active rolls is that it telegraphs to the players that something is there. To avoid that, the DM could roll for the player, or alternatively, the DM could ask for active rolls when they are not needed. When the PCs all fail (because there is nothing there) and try to keep at it, just tell them that they already searched and found nothing. Move on.Course,  none of these solutions is 100% satisfying.</blockquote>