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Passive skills
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<blockquote data-quote="feartheminotaur" data-source="post: 6853818" data-attributes="member: 6801354"><p>I think every skill can be used, mechanically, with a "passive check". I do it all the time as DM. I approach skills in much the same way [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] does - it's not so much a passive check as it is using the ability to set the floor. That's all a passive check accomplishes mechanically - do one of the PCs have an ability that automatically beats the DC without having to actively declare they are going to do so (whether that DC is static like a trap or variable like a monster sneak up on them)? </p><p></p><p> I think this opens up a new way to consider the old passive check system and how you narrate skills. If a passive check translates to 'can the player do it without actively trying?', you can apply it to any skill challenge. Hearing a peel of thunder is a great example of a standard PHB passive check. The player isn't sitting around going "I check for thunder" every round, but if it happens there's a chance they hear it. That chance is their passive check. If it happens you narrate it; if not, you don't.</p><p></p><p>But that doesn't work at face value for every skill - there is a difference between 'passive' and 'active' skills - I don't see how you can passively climb a rope or passively pick a lock. </p><p></p><p>That's why the concept of "ability floor" is great - it doesn't need the players to actively declare every little action; you can passively adjudicate it.</p><p></p><p>Let's use the lock picking example: The players declare "Our rogue Sneaky Pete is going to try and open this door". It's locked with the DC set at 10. Sneaky Pete has a +10 Sleight of Hand (+3 proficiency - doubled due to Expertise - and +4 Dex). There is no chance of failure (since no auto-failure on a 1). You could say "You try to open it, but the door is locked" and go through an active check you know they'll succeed... but why? Why not just narrate Pete laughing at the crappy lock as he swiftly picks it then opens the door? You are 'passively' determining the outcome.</p><p></p><p>What if I set the DC at 15? Petey'll make it happen eventually, given NO limitations, so auto-success, you might narrate the lock being stuck or old and rusty to account for the time it takes, but the dice remain unrolled. Now, let's assume the room is filling with sand and the lock must be picked in a round or two? Well, that has a chance for failure and subsequent consequences. Call for a roll. </p><p></p><p>In this example, there is no passive check, just a skill floor (can't roll below 11) vs a DC; with the roll only necessary if the outcome of the skill check is in doubt (due to DC, time, no retries, etc.). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm quoting this because the DM "doing hidden rolls for the player" is, to me, against the entire concept of player agency. Any roll modified by what is on a player's character sheet should be rolled by the player.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="feartheminotaur, post: 6853818, member: 6801354"] I think every skill can be used, mechanically, with a "passive check". I do it all the time as DM. I approach skills in much the same way [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION] does - it's not so much a passive check as it is using the ability to set the floor. That's all a passive check accomplishes mechanically - do one of the PCs have an ability that automatically beats the DC without having to actively declare they are going to do so (whether that DC is static like a trap or variable like a monster sneak up on them)? I think this opens up a new way to consider the old passive check system and how you narrate skills. If a passive check translates to 'can the player do it without actively trying?', you can apply it to any skill challenge. Hearing a peel of thunder is a great example of a standard PHB passive check. The player isn't sitting around going "I check for thunder" every round, but if it happens there's a chance they hear it. That chance is their passive check. If it happens you narrate it; if not, you don't. But that doesn't work at face value for every skill - there is a difference between 'passive' and 'active' skills - I don't see how you can passively climb a rope or passively pick a lock. That's why the concept of "ability floor" is great - it doesn't need the players to actively declare every little action; you can passively adjudicate it. Let's use the lock picking example: The players declare "Our rogue Sneaky Pete is going to try and open this door". It's locked with the DC set at 10. Sneaky Pete has a +10 Sleight of Hand (+3 proficiency - doubled due to Expertise - and +4 Dex). There is no chance of failure (since no auto-failure on a 1). You could say "You try to open it, but the door is locked" and go through an active check you know they'll succeed... but why? Why not just narrate Pete laughing at the crappy lock as he swiftly picks it then opens the door? You are 'passively' determining the outcome. What if I set the DC at 15? Petey'll make it happen eventually, given NO limitations, so auto-success, you might narrate the lock being stuck or old and rusty to account for the time it takes, but the dice remain unrolled. Now, let's assume the room is filling with sand and the lock must be picked in a round or two? Well, that has a chance for failure and subsequent consequences. Call for a roll. In this example, there is no passive check, just a skill floor (can't roll below 11) vs a DC; with the roll only necessary if the outcome of the skill check is in doubt (due to DC, time, no retries, etc.). I'm quoting this because the DM "doing hidden rolls for the player" is, to me, against the entire concept of player agency. Any roll modified by what is on a player's character sheet should be rolled by the player. [/QUOTE]
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