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Passive vs Active Perception...
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7329880" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>There's really nothing about passive checks in the rules that indicates the characters are necessarily doing anything passively though. It means they're doing a thing over and over again and those tasks have an uncertain outcome. That's not passive in the fictional sense. "Taking proactive efforts to be on watch" is an ability check when it's a one-off task with an uncertain outcome and a passive check when you're doing the same take with an uncertain outcome repeatedly over time. The latter tends to be the case when you're traveling, exploring, delving, etc. Which explains why passive Perception is used to determine surprise. If you do anything other than be on watch and said task is sufficiently distracting, then you don't get a chance to avoid being surprised. If the monsters act stealthily, you are automatically surprised. Hopefully, the task you chose instead is beneficial enough to offset whatever punishment you may take for not keeping watch.</p><p></p><p>As to your example, if the PCs are in combat, the characters are assumed to be Keeping Watch. This is what makes the passive Perception the "floor" when the outcome of whether or not the PCs can spot a hidden creature is in doubt. If the player chooses to take the Search action, he or she might make a Wisdom (Perception) check if the DM asks for one. </p><p></p><p>Embedded in your last two posts, <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?612986-Passive-vs-Active-Perception&p=7329653&viewfull=1#post7329653" target="_blank">especially post #17</a>, seems to be an assumption that the players are trying to roll the dice. That is not the default expectation in the rules so far as I can tell, though that is a common way to play. The player describes what he or she wants to do. The DM then decides if the outcome is uncertain and there's a meaningful consequence of failure. Only<em> then</em> do you roll and, in my opinion, a player shouldn't want to if he or she can avoid it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7329880, member: 97077"] There's really nothing about passive checks in the rules that indicates the characters are necessarily doing anything passively though. It means they're doing a thing over and over again and those tasks have an uncertain outcome. That's not passive in the fictional sense. "Taking proactive efforts to be on watch" is an ability check when it's a one-off task with an uncertain outcome and a passive check when you're doing the same take with an uncertain outcome repeatedly over time. The latter tends to be the case when you're traveling, exploring, delving, etc. Which explains why passive Perception is used to determine surprise. If you do anything other than be on watch and said task is sufficiently distracting, then you don't get a chance to avoid being surprised. If the monsters act stealthily, you are automatically surprised. Hopefully, the task you chose instead is beneficial enough to offset whatever punishment you may take for not keeping watch. As to your example, if the PCs are in combat, the characters are assumed to be Keeping Watch. This is what makes the passive Perception the "floor" when the outcome of whether or not the PCs can spot a hidden creature is in doubt. If the player chooses to take the Search action, he or she might make a Wisdom (Perception) check if the DM asks for one. Embedded in your last two posts, [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?612986-Passive-vs-Active-Perception&p=7329653&viewfull=1#post7329653"]especially post #17[/URL], seems to be an assumption that the players are trying to roll the dice. That is not the default expectation in the rules so far as I can tell, though that is a common way to play. The player describes what he or she wants to do. The DM then decides if the outcome is uncertain and there's a meaningful consequence of failure. Only[I] then[/I] do you roll and, in my opinion, a player shouldn't want to if he or she can avoid it. [/QUOTE]
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