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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9890595" data-attributes="member: 23751">It's not that it has no value.&nbsp; It's that it has virtually no value in isolation.Suggestion can take a powerful creature out of combat indefinitely.&nbsp; Charm Person can turn an enemy into a friend.&nbsp; Phantasmal Force can take an enemy or enemies out of the fight for a round or two.&nbsp; Healing to keep the barbarian up or bring him conscious turns a portion of the barbarian's damage into the bard's damage.&nbsp; Tasha's Hideous Laughter incapacitates an enemy and knocks it prone, allowing the barbarian(and everyone else) to pretty much have his way with it.&nbsp; Heat Metal can allow the bard to Cook and Book.&nbsp; Command can disarm, prone or whatever the enemy.&nbsp; And on and on.These things for the most part don't translate easily into DPR.Have you been paying attention to the complaints about spellcasting since 5e came out?&nbsp; Spells are still king.The argument, at least as I've made it, is not that they are comparable.&nbsp; Just that while the barbarian is great, the bard is still good.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9890595, member: 23751"] It's not that it has no value. It's that it has virtually no value in isolation. Suggestion can take a powerful creature out of combat indefinitely. Charm Person can turn an enemy into a friend. Phantasmal Force can take an enemy or enemies out of the fight for a round or two. Healing to keep the barbarian up or bring him conscious turns a portion of the barbarian's damage into the bard's damage. Tasha's Hideous Laughter incapacitates an enemy and knocks it prone, allowing the barbarian(and everyone else) to pretty much have his way with it. Heat Metal can allow the bard to Cook and Book. Command can disarm, prone or whatever the enemy. And on and on. These things for the most part don't translate easily into DPR. Have you been paying attention to the complaints about spellcasting since 5e came out? Spells are still king. The argument, at least as I've made it, is not that they are comparable. Just that while the barbarian is great, the bard is still good. [/QUOTE]

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