Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2 and support for other playing styles/subgenres
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8236139" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>As long as you add sufficient warning systems, I see no issues with your logic.</p><p></p><p>To be clear, Pathfinder 2 doesn't offer any such warning systems, and the reason is that in PFS/AP play, you practically never have to worry about this issue. The adventure is a roller coaster where you practically always have "appropriate" encounters for your level, so no warning system is needed and would in fact be redundant.</p><p></p><p>In other words, decidedly not the sandbox way of play.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">There are exceptions to this rule, but then there is still an unwritten rule that the adventure will specifically include text to warn you. (I would say the adventures bend over backwards to ensure not even the clumsiest and most impulsive adventure can fail to get the point, but I digress). In the few cases where this doesn't happen, you can basically assume a mistake has been made.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">[SPOILER="a case from the Extinction Curse AP (mild spoilers)"]</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">This Adventure Path features exactly one instance where it is even conceivable for the heroes to blunder into "high level territory" before they are ready. And indeed, it reads as an oversight.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">IIRC the players arrive to a city when they reach level 5. But the main BBEG awaits them at the end of the level 8 chapter. The text perfunctorily acknowledges that players itching for revenge might seek out this BBEG, but just dismisses this possibility with "combat with the front gate guards should tell the players they are in the wrong area". (In Pathfinder 2 level is more decisive than in maybe any other iteration of D&D, so what might be considered a "moderate" challenge for level 8 heroes is an insanely lethal "extreme" encounter at level 5)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">Of course, I fully understand if y'all would find this entirely inadequate. But thems the breaks.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">[/SPOILER]</span></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you need to add warning systems (which is another instance of my criticism, in that Paizo appears entirely uninterested to support sandbox play).</p><p></p><p>Most crudely, do what I did: rate every critter they meet on a scale from green through yellow to red:</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)">Green</span></strong> = the monster or NPC is your level or lower</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(250, 197, 28)">Yellow</span></strong> = 1-2 levels higher than you</p><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Red</span></strong> = 3 or more levels higher than you</p><p></p><p>You gain this information automatically and for free. This was the only way we could simply and quickly get on with the role-playing experience, without stupid surprises when a seemingly small and weak critter turns out to be a lethal opponent, or suddenly find out that your spell is utterly toothless just because he's one level too high for Incapacitation not to rear its ugly head etc... in short, without getting bogged down into "meta" aspects (I dislike having to tell the players exact numbers).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8236139, member: 12731"] As long as you add sufficient warning systems, I see no issues with your logic. To be clear, Pathfinder 2 doesn't offer any such warning systems, and the reason is that in PFS/AP play, you practically never have to worry about this issue. The adventure is a roller coaster where you practically always have "appropriate" encounters for your level, so no warning system is needed and would in fact be redundant. In other words, decidedly not the sandbox way of play. [SIZE=3]There are exceptions to this rule, but then there is still an unwritten rule that the adventure will specifically include text to warn you. (I would say the adventures bend over backwards to ensure not even the clumsiest and most impulsive adventure can fail to get the point, but I digress). In the few cases where this doesn't happen, you can basically assume a mistake has been made. [SPOILER="a case from the Extinction Curse AP (mild spoilers)"] This Adventure Path features exactly one instance where it is even conceivable for the heroes to blunder into "high level territory" before they are ready. And indeed, it reads as an oversight. IIRC the players arrive to a city when they reach level 5. But the main BBEG awaits them at the end of the level 8 chapter. The text perfunctorily acknowledges that players itching for revenge might seek out this BBEG, but just dismisses this possibility with "combat with the front gate guards should tell the players they are in the wrong area". (In Pathfinder 2 level is more decisive than in maybe any other iteration of D&D, so what might be considered a "moderate" challenge for level 8 heroes is an insanely lethal "extreme" encounter at level 5) Of course, I fully understand if y'all would find this entirely inadequate. But thems the breaks. [/SPOILER][/SIZE] So you need to add warning systems (which is another instance of my criticism, in that Paizo appears entirely uninterested to support sandbox play). Most crudely, do what I did: rate every critter they meet on a scale from green through yellow to red: [B][COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]Green[/COLOR][/B] = the monster or NPC is your level or lower [B][COLOR=rgb(250, 197, 28)]Yellow[/COLOR][/B] = 1-2 levels higher than you [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Red[/COLOR][/B] = 3 or more levels higher than you You gain this information automatically and for free. This was the only way we could simply and quickly get on with the role-playing experience, without stupid surprises when a seemingly small and weak critter turns out to be a lethal opponent, or suddenly find out that your spell is utterly toothless just because he's one level too high for Incapacitation not to rear its ugly head etc... in short, without getting bogged down into "meta" aspects (I dislike having to tell the players exact numbers). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2 and support for other playing styles/subgenres
Top