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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2 and the game Paizo should have made
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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7815418" data-attributes="member: 957"><p>Probably true. I've stated several times before that any game that is rigid enough to get away from relying on the people around the table to contribute to the success of the experience is not going to be a great story-telling game. </p><p>Combat games are easy. Designed a well balanced also sophisticated combat game can be quite a challenge and require a ton of knowledge and experience. And yet, compared to creating a set of mechanics which aspire to allow a person to really pretend to be a fully imagined person in a fantasy world, combat games are easy.</p><p></p><p>A great TTRPG must rely on the players. For better or for worse, the best possible TTRPG will probably have a "high entry gate". (Which isn't to say you can have starter sets, etc etc etc) I 100% support the goal of having good entry points for new gamers and exciting ways to play without that experience. But too often that goal seems to come paired with a concession that groups will still be playing at that entry level years later. </p><p></p><p>Lack of multiple meaningful decision points is incompatible with a great RPG mechanics system. You might tell the best stories EVER on top of a seriously underwhelming mechanical system. And that could be awesome fun. But, in that scenario, the fun is coming from the people and the mechanics are beside the point. There may be some people, some groups, who are so focused and talented at story that the system truly makes no difference. I think that for most groups system makes a difference. A move away from meaningful decision points is meaningless to the first group and a negative to the other two. So that is a bad thing.</p><p></p><p>Certainly there could be groups who really just want a robust tactical system with a sense of vicarious empowerment but negligible character investment. Consider the throngs of online MMO players (NOT comparing any game system here, just talking about players). Tons of people are deeply into their character, and yet I know that when I played WOW (clean and sober ten years now, thank you) the RP Shards were frequently mocked as if they were LARP Lightning Bolt kids. I don't see that as a big share of the TTRPG market. But I'm sure it exists. And I'm not sure if PF2E is a great appeal to them or not. But my argument certainly doesn't apply to them. </p><p></p><p>But for the bulk of players, I truly believe that this is a very important point.</p><p></p><p>And it is one of the reasons I shake my head when I read people commenting on how they played their first session and it was awesome. The significance of decision points are experienced cumulatively, and the value either compounds on itself or decays.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 7815418, member: 957"] Probably true. I've stated several times before that any game that is rigid enough to get away from relying on the people around the table to contribute to the success of the experience is not going to be a great story-telling game. Combat games are easy. Designed a well balanced also sophisticated combat game can be quite a challenge and require a ton of knowledge and experience. And yet, compared to creating a set of mechanics which aspire to allow a person to really pretend to be a fully imagined person in a fantasy world, combat games are easy. A great TTRPG must rely on the players. For better or for worse, the best possible TTRPG will probably have a "high entry gate". (Which isn't to say you can have starter sets, etc etc etc) I 100% support the goal of having good entry points for new gamers and exciting ways to play without that experience. But too often that goal seems to come paired with a concession that groups will still be playing at that entry level years later. Lack of multiple meaningful decision points is incompatible with a great RPG mechanics system. You might tell the best stories EVER on top of a seriously underwhelming mechanical system. And that could be awesome fun. But, in that scenario, the fun is coming from the people and the mechanics are beside the point. There may be some people, some groups, who are so focused and talented at story that the system truly makes no difference. I think that for most groups system makes a difference. A move away from meaningful decision points is meaningless to the first group and a negative to the other two. So that is a bad thing. Certainly there could be groups who really just want a robust tactical system with a sense of vicarious empowerment but negligible character investment. Consider the throngs of online MMO players (NOT comparing any game system here, just talking about players). Tons of people are deeply into their character, and yet I know that when I played WOW (clean and sober ten years now, thank you) the RP Shards were frequently mocked as if they were LARP Lightning Bolt kids. I don't see that as a big share of the TTRPG market. But I'm sure it exists. And I'm not sure if PF2E is a great appeal to them or not. But my argument certainly doesn't apply to them. But for the bulk of players, I truly believe that this is a very important point. And it is one of the reasons I shake my head when I read people commenting on how they played their first session and it was awesome. The significance of decision points are experienced cumulatively, and the value either compounds on itself or decays. [/QUOTE]
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