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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7833528" data-attributes="member: 12731">There are a lot of incredibly "small" rules in PF2; that is rules regulating every little part of an action or sequence you might otherwise just use GM Fiat to resolve.For example, the rules include a Point Out action. You need to track the "visibility status" of each ambush foe relative to each PC, in stages such as "unobserved", "hidden" etc. Then you can "upgrade" that status for your friends by spending this action. But does this simply mean the target becomes freely targetable by everyone? No siree. It still remains hidden, but is no longer unobserved!Another example would be Recall Knowledge. On one hand you have detailed (finicky) regulation, requiring a roll to get hold of each snippet of knowledge regarding a foe's strength and weaknesses. At the same time, there's next to no guidance on what exactly a successful Recall Knowledge should provide!Furthermore: on one hand I get the impression you're supposed to pay the (heavy) cost of setting aside an action in combat to glean this information. On the other, there are plenty of feats that talk about doing Recall Knowledge at various times. There's even abilities that lets Bards and Wizards get the results from five or six (!) Recalls when they cast a spell.The overall impression? You're supposed to have this list of useful and not so useful factoids prepared for every monster (resistant to cold, bad reflex saves, lots of hit points, weakness to cold iron, etc etc)......and have the players keep track of which such factoids have been "acquired" for each monster.All this incredible rules detail... for what? The actual "factoids" are still completely undefined and up to the GM to select and list, with zero help from the rules or the monster stat blocks themselves.Not to mention the horrific expense of it all. Spending an action with a 50% success rate might be something a player would contemplate... if that told him and the entire party everything (or at least much) of what they need to do ("use fire against trolls")... But the Recall Knowledge action specifically calls for a single info snippet!I have games mastered D&D and other games for thirty years and I can't see - at all - how to run this "subsystem" as written. Instead of spending an awful lot of combat actions on trying to suss out weaknesses, the players simply whale on the monster brute force. They conclude Recall actions are a complete waste of time inside an encounter, and I can't say they're wrong.And if you can attempt Recalls outside of combat... well, then it would be much simpler to just spill the beans and tell them what they want to know, wouldn't it...? I can't figure it out.ZappPs. I realize you're now itching to explain to me how Recall Knowledge works, and what the RAW and RAI is.Please understand, in the context of this thread, I didn't merely want to say "PF2 is DEFINITELY not for the weak of mind" - I wanted to provide actual specific examples of the INCREDIBLE rules density, especially compared to 5th edition.Plus, if you know me, I have kinda sorted it anyway - I'm giving out "much" info on a successful roll, not just a single tidbit. And I've flagged to my players that for the moment they should focus on those feats that provide info inside combat, not outside of it (since I don't know how to run them). Prime example the "gain 6 Recall Knowledge" feats that basically make no sense whatsoever.So please tell me everything about Recall Knowledge, but maybe it's best to start a designated thread for that, and have this one still be about GM experience with PF2. ThxEdit: formatting (what looks good in the app, doesn't on desktop)</blockquote>

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