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<blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7739949" data-attributes="member: 48965"><p>I'll be upfront, I'm probably not their primary audience... and not because i don't like character options but because I mostly DM and rarely play. Out of the 6 players in my group only one really enjoys the whole character build part of the game at the level of granularity that PF seems to be striving for, most just want to play the game and aren't looking for a multitude of decision points at every step of play. I think maybe 3-4 is the upermost limit most of my players want at a point and time and even that's pushing it. So what I would hope they'd do is something along the line of 5e and feats where they are optional... or there is some kind of streamlined option for those who just don't find that level of granularity rewarding... But given the fact that this was asked for by fans after the Beginner Box came out and Paizo chose not to pursue it... I don't think that's the market they want. </p><p></p><p>In all honesty my biggest worry for Pathfinder is it's accessibility, if I present this to my group as an alternative to 5e and leveling up takes hours... I'm going to get groans, sighs and why can't we just play 5e because for them playing the game not character building is the key. If they have 20 choices every time they go to attack they are going to remember 2 maybe 3 and always fall back on those because 20 is just overkill (Or again they will sigh, groan and ask why aren't we playing 5e). I feel like I'm rambling but I hope this gives a little insight into why I'm torn about PF2 being for me and my group. </p><p></p><p>EDIT: 5e IMO is a remarkably easy game to get new players in and have them playing without feeling lost... PF just has never been that game to me, at least not without ignoring huge swaths of it or purposefully limiting it. I want PF2 to be great for those who want options but I think there needs to be consideration around grabbing and retaining the less hardcore players of RPG's...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Imaro, post: 7739949, member: 48965"] I'll be upfront, I'm probably not their primary audience... and not because i don't like character options but because I mostly DM and rarely play. Out of the 6 players in my group only one really enjoys the whole character build part of the game at the level of granularity that PF seems to be striving for, most just want to play the game and aren't looking for a multitude of decision points at every step of play. I think maybe 3-4 is the upermost limit most of my players want at a point and time and even that's pushing it. So what I would hope they'd do is something along the line of 5e and feats where they are optional... or there is some kind of streamlined option for those who just don't find that level of granularity rewarding... But given the fact that this was asked for by fans after the Beginner Box came out and Paizo chose not to pursue it... I don't think that's the market they want. In all honesty my biggest worry for Pathfinder is it's accessibility, if I present this to my group as an alternative to 5e and leveling up takes hours... I'm going to get groans, sighs and why can't we just play 5e because for them playing the game not character building is the key. If they have 20 choices every time they go to attack they are going to remember 2 maybe 3 and always fall back on those because 20 is just overkill (Or again they will sigh, groan and ask why aren't we playing 5e). I feel like I'm rambling but I hope this gives a little insight into why I'm torn about PF2 being for me and my group. EDIT: 5e IMO is a remarkably easy game to get new players in and have them playing without feeling lost... PF just has never been that game to me, at least not without ignoring huge swaths of it or purposefully limiting it. I want PF2 to be great for those who want options but I think there needs to be consideration around grabbing and retaining the less hardcore players of RPG's... [/QUOTE]
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