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Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7825426" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>Getting back to actual play experience.</p><p></p><p>Right behind exploration mode and other features like Bulk and Secret Rolls that represent sleek and modern ways to bring back features of Classic Dungeons and Dragons my second favorite thing about Pathfinder Second Edition is the way skills were implemented. Skills are potent, have a defined niche, are incredibly accessible, extensible, and allow players of any class to define how they will interact with the game world.</p><p></p><p>As someone who plays and runs a lot of games that are not Dungeons and Dragons one of my biggest pet peeves with the versions of the game that have implemented skill systems in the narrow band of competency most Dungeons and Dragons characters have outside of combat.</p><p></p><p>In terms of fiction I have a tendency to prefer characters who can hold their own in multiple arenas. When I play other games I get to play warriors who are knights in every sense of the word with the social skills to back it up or sorcerers who can sneak about effectively or bounty hunters who have the skills to pursue their quarry, ferret out rumors, and arrange pickups and drop offs.</p><p></p><p>Often in other versions of modern Dungeons and Dragons I had to resort to kludges like multi-classing into Rogue for skills in order to execute on a given concept. So far I am finding that Pathfinder Second edition allows me to realize the sort of broadly competent pulp heroes that modern iterations of the game do a fairly poor job of executing. Usually I can even do it from first level. Pathfinder Second Edition characters feel more like something you would find in games like Legend of the Five Rings. They have their core class competency, but bridge out into other areas as well.</p><p></p><p>There are a couple reasons for this.</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">In Pathfinder Second Edition in character class can be just as good at any skill in the game as any other class. The difference between skill focused classes like the Rogue or upcoming Investigator and other classes is one of breadth rather than depth. They get to be good at more skills by having more skill increases and skill feats, but a Fighter or Barbarian who focuses on social skills will be just as competent at those skills. My Barbarian has acted as the party face so far.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Every class starts the game trained in a good number of skills. Even a Fighter or Barbarian who does not invest in additional skills will start the game trained in 5 normal skills and 1 Lore skill in a game that only has 16 normal skills. Classes will give you the skills necessary to realize the fantasy of the class, but your other skills choices have no restrictions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Becoming trained in other skills is fairly easy. You can use any skill increase to pickup an additional skill rather than improve an existing one. Skill feats, general feats, and several archetype dedications also allow you to invest in skills. If you are a human you can start the game with up to 3 additional skills. Other ancestries have more thematically targeted options to pick up skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">One of the best things Pathfinder Second Edition did in my opinion was making Perception a separate proficiency that every class was at least trained in. They also rolled in Insight/Sense Motive into Perception. It just makes sense to me that situational awareness is something all adventurers should have and that some classes would be better at than others. These skills were also so much better than other skills that they felt like a tax especially on classes like fighters.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The ability scores have been re-balanced so investing in Charisma or Intelligence over Constitution and Dexterity is a fairly viable life choice for a Barbarian or Fighter. They will suffer a bit, but have more opportunities in other areas including combat for Charisma. So far my Barbarian often gets incredible mileage out of Feint to inflicted Flatfooted on his enemies and Demoralize to Frighten them which is a potent debuff that everyone can take advantage of. A critical success on Feint sometimes means I have been inflict both conditions on the same enemy. Holy critmas!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Also the way ability boosts works means you get more well rounded characters in general. Rather than raising a single ability score by 2 points or two by 1 point you get to raise 4 ability scores by 2 points. Raising them above 18 only increases it by 1 point which means you do not end up too far behind if you opt to have a more well rounded rather than focused character.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Both skills and spells have been curated so they generally do different things rather than magic doing the same thing better.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Spells like Charm or Invisibility have different trade offs associated with them than skills like Diplomacy or Stealth. Using those spells also generally still benefits from having the appropriate skills.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Outside of combat spell casters will lean on their skills and spells because they have different strengths and weaknesses. A typical healing focused Cleric will save Heal for combat because of its amazing spike healing and ability to give Undead or Fiends a very bad day while healing everyone else. They will tend towards leaning on Medicine in between fights to patch everyone up. I really like that they both have their uses and spell casters still do normal human things. This feels pulpy to me.</li> </ol></li> </ol><p></p><p></p><p>For reference here are the two characters I intend to use in Pathfinder Society to get a feel for the game. The first is the Barbarian who is a displaced noble I have played in 3 scenarios so far. Next is the illusionist charlatan and thief that I intend to try to get a feel for what playing a spell caster is like in this edition. I have focused on skills here. The class specific parts of the builds have been omitted.</p><p></p><p>[Spoiler="Vertigan, Disgraced Noble Fueled By A Dragon's Rage"]</p><p>Vertigan is a scion and rightful heir of a Chellaxian Noble House who lost his position due to the schemes of his half brother. When he was a baby Vertigan was baptised in the blood of a Red Dragon. Now fueled by the arrogance and wrath of a Red Dragon he adventures to gather the resources to take back his house by force.</p><p></p><p>As befits someone of his station Vertigan excels in nearly any social situation. He is incredibly comfortable in noble society and quickly learns the major players when he arrives somewhere new. He has become a student of the mystical in pursuit of gaining a better understanding of his nature.</p><p></p><p>Within combat he uses his athletic prowess and instinctual understanding of human nature to outmaneuver and cow down those of a lower station than he as his connection to the dragon gives him strength.</p><p></p><p><strong>Build</strong></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>Ancestry : Skilled Human</p><p>Background : Noble</p><p>Class : Barbarian</p><p>Instinct : Red Dragon</p><p>Alignment: Lawful Neutral</p><p></p><p><strong>Ability Scores</strong></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>Strength 18</p><p>Dexterity 12</p><p>Constitution 12</p><p>Wisdom 10</p><p>Intelligence 10</p><p>Charisma 16</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Skills</strong></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>Perception (Includes Insight) +5</p><p>Arcana +3</p><p>Athletics +7</p><p>Deception +6</p><p>Diplomacy +6</p><p>Intimidation +6</p><p>Lore (Heraldry) +3</p><p>Society +3</p><p></p><p>[/Spoiler]</p><p></p><p>[Spoiler=Varis, Charlatan and Student of the Occult ]</p><p>Varis grew up in the upper reaches of Absolam society. His mother, who attempted to raise him, was an elven court mage who was highly regarded. Varis had been the result of a tryst she had with one of her companions back when she was an adventurer. Varis' father had also settled in Absolam, operating a small theives guild. As a child Varis' mother tutored him in the ways of magic and noble society. He would sneak out and spend time with his father cutting purses and running cons.</p><p></p><p>Over time Varis developed a unique mix of magical acumen and skills that allowed him to take advantage of the same nobles that he grew up with. He become disenchanted with the world of his mother, seeing the upper crust of Absolam as corrupt and capricious. After his father was captured Varis decided to adventure to gain the resources he needs to spring his dad.</p><p></p><p>Varis has yet to see play, but the idea is that he can scout ahead, pick locks, and disable traps while dungeoneering. As a fledgling master of illusions he uses his skill with Deception and illusion magic to blend in and go where ever he needs to go. He is also well versed in noble society, the arcane arts, and esoteric knowledge that he has picked up going from here to there and everywhere in between.</p><p></p><p><strong>Build</strong></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>Ancestry : Half Elf</p><p>Background : Noble</p><p>Class : Wizard</p><p>School : Illusion</p><p>Alignment: Chaotic Good</p><p></p><p>Ancestry Feat : General Training</p><p>General Feat : Uncanny Acumen (Perception)</p><p></p><p><strong>Ability Scores</strong></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>Strength 10</p><p>Dexterity 16</p><p>Constitution 10</p><p>Wisdom 12</p><p>Intelligence 18</p><p>Charisma 12</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Skills</strong></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p>Perception (Includes Insight) +6</p><p>Acrobatics +6</p><p>Arcana +7</p><p>Deception +4</p><p>Lore (Underworld) +7</p><p>Occultism +7</p><p>Performance +4</p><p>Society +7</p><p>Stealth +6</p><p>Thievery +6</p><p>[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 7825426, member: 16586"] Getting back to actual play experience. Right behind exploration mode and other features like Bulk and Secret Rolls that represent sleek and modern ways to bring back features of Classic Dungeons and Dragons my second favorite thing about Pathfinder Second Edition is the way skills were implemented. Skills are potent, have a defined niche, are incredibly accessible, extensible, and allow players of any class to define how they will interact with the game world. As someone who plays and runs a lot of games that are not Dungeons and Dragons one of my biggest pet peeves with the versions of the game that have implemented skill systems in the narrow band of competency most Dungeons and Dragons characters have outside of combat. In terms of fiction I have a tendency to prefer characters who can hold their own in multiple arenas. When I play other games I get to play warriors who are knights in every sense of the word with the social skills to back it up or sorcerers who can sneak about effectively or bounty hunters who have the skills to pursue their quarry, ferret out rumors, and arrange pickups and drop offs. Often in other versions of modern Dungeons and Dragons I had to resort to kludges like multi-classing into Rogue for skills in order to execute on a given concept. So far I am finding that Pathfinder Second edition allows me to realize the sort of broadly competent pulp heroes that modern iterations of the game do a fairly poor job of executing. Usually I can even do it from first level. Pathfinder Second Edition characters feel more like something you would find in games like Legend of the Five Rings. They have their core class competency, but bridge out into other areas as well. There are a couple reasons for this. [LIST=1] [*]In Pathfinder Second Edition in character class can be just as good at any skill in the game as any other class. The difference between skill focused classes like the Rogue or upcoming Investigator and other classes is one of breadth rather than depth. They get to be good at more skills by having more skill increases and skill feats, but a Fighter or Barbarian who focuses on social skills will be just as competent at those skills. My Barbarian has acted as the party face so far. [*]Every class starts the game trained in a good number of skills. Even a Fighter or Barbarian who does not invest in additional skills will start the game trained in 5 normal skills and 1 Lore skill in a game that only has 16 normal skills. Classes will give you the skills necessary to realize the fantasy of the class, but your other skills choices have no restrictions. [*]Becoming trained in other skills is fairly easy. You can use any skill increase to pickup an additional skill rather than improve an existing one. Skill feats, general feats, and several archetype dedications also allow you to invest in skills. If you are a human you can start the game with up to 3 additional skills. Other ancestries have more thematically targeted options to pick up skills. [*]One of the best things Pathfinder Second Edition did in my opinion was making Perception a separate proficiency that every class was at least trained in. They also rolled in Insight/Sense Motive into Perception. It just makes sense to me that situational awareness is something all adventurers should have and that some classes would be better at than others. These skills were also so much better than other skills that they felt like a tax especially on classes like fighters. [*]The ability scores have been re-balanced so investing in Charisma or Intelligence over Constitution and Dexterity is a fairly viable life choice for a Barbarian or Fighter. They will suffer a bit, but have more opportunities in other areas including combat for Charisma. So far my Barbarian often gets incredible mileage out of Feint to inflicted Flatfooted on his enemies and Demoralize to Frighten them which is a potent debuff that everyone can take advantage of. A critical success on Feint sometimes means I have been inflict both conditions on the same enemy. Holy critmas! [*]Also the way ability boosts works means you get more well rounded characters in general. Rather than raising a single ability score by 2 points or two by 1 point you get to raise 4 ability scores by 2 points. Raising them above 18 only increases it by 1 point which means you do not end up too far behind if you opt to have a more well rounded rather than focused character. [*]Both skills and spells have been curated so they generally do different things rather than magic doing the same thing better. [LIST=1] [*]Spells like Charm or Invisibility have different trade offs associated with them than skills like Diplomacy or Stealth. Using those spells also generally still benefits from having the appropriate skills. [*]Outside of combat spell casters will lean on their skills and spells because they have different strengths and weaknesses. A typical healing focused Cleric will save Heal for combat because of its amazing spike healing and ability to give Undead or Fiends a very bad day while healing everyone else. They will tend towards leaning on Medicine in between fights to patch everyone up. I really like that they both have their uses and spell casters still do normal human things. This feels pulpy to me. [/LIST] [/LIST] For reference here are the two characters I intend to use in Pathfinder Society to get a feel for the game. The first is the Barbarian who is a displaced noble I have played in 3 scenarios so far. Next is the illusionist charlatan and thief that I intend to try to get a feel for what playing a spell caster is like in this edition. I have focused on skills here. The class specific parts of the builds have been omitted. [Spoiler="Vertigan, Disgraced Noble Fueled By A Dragon's Rage"] Vertigan is a scion and rightful heir of a Chellaxian Noble House who lost his position due to the schemes of his half brother. When he was a baby Vertigan was baptised in the blood of a Red Dragon. Now fueled by the arrogance and wrath of a Red Dragon he adventures to gather the resources to take back his house by force. As befits someone of his station Vertigan excels in nearly any social situation. He is incredibly comfortable in noble society and quickly learns the major players when he arrives somewhere new. He has become a student of the mystical in pursuit of gaining a better understanding of his nature. Within combat he uses his athletic prowess and instinctual understanding of human nature to outmaneuver and cow down those of a lower station than he as his connection to the dragon gives him strength. [B]Build[/B] [HR][/HR] Ancestry : Skilled Human Background : Noble Class : Barbarian Instinct : Red Dragon Alignment: Lawful Neutral [B]Ability Scores[/B] [HR][/HR] Strength 18 Dexterity 12 Constitution 12 Wisdom 10 Intelligence 10 Charisma 16 [B]Skills[/B] [HR][/HR] Perception (Includes Insight) +5 Arcana +3 Athletics +7 Deception +6 Diplomacy +6 Intimidation +6 Lore (Heraldry) +3 Society +3 [/Spoiler] [Spoiler=Varis, Charlatan and Student of the Occult ] Varis grew up in the upper reaches of Absolam society. His mother, who attempted to raise him, was an elven court mage who was highly regarded. Varis had been the result of a tryst she had with one of her companions back when she was an adventurer. Varis' father had also settled in Absolam, operating a small theives guild. As a child Varis' mother tutored him in the ways of magic and noble society. He would sneak out and spend time with his father cutting purses and running cons. Over time Varis developed a unique mix of magical acumen and skills that allowed him to take advantage of the same nobles that he grew up with. He become disenchanted with the world of his mother, seeing the upper crust of Absolam as corrupt and capricious. After his father was captured Varis decided to adventure to gain the resources he needs to spring his dad. Varis has yet to see play, but the idea is that he can scout ahead, pick locks, and disable traps while dungeoneering. As a fledgling master of illusions he uses his skill with Deception and illusion magic to blend in and go where ever he needs to go. He is also well versed in noble society, the arcane arts, and esoteric knowledge that he has picked up going from here to there and everywhere in between. [B]Build[/B] [HR][/HR] Ancestry : Half Elf Background : Noble Class : Wizard School : Illusion Alignment: Chaotic Good Ancestry Feat : General Training General Feat : Uncanny Acumen (Perception) [B]Ability Scores[/B] [HR][/HR] Strength 10 Dexterity 16 Constitution 10 Wisdom 12 Intelligence 18 Charisma 12 [B]Skills[/B] [HR][/HR] Perception (Includes Insight) +6 Acrobatics +6 Arcana +7 Deception +4 Lore (Underworld) +7 Occultism +7 Performance +4 Society +7 Stealth +6 Thievery +6 [/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
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