NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Porridge" data-source="post: 7994575" data-attributes="member: 7020143">Thanks for this comparison -- I've never played D&D 4e myself, but I've heard people talk about it, so I found this compare and contrasting very interesting.Aside: While it's true that PF2 has a lot of conditions, I think a lot of this is just a consequence of the designers getting "key word happy", not an indication of the complexity of the game. For example, several of PF2's "conditions" are just descriptions for varying degrees of being hidden -- "undetected", "observed", etc -- which could have just been kept in the stealth and perception sections. Several more of PF2's "conditions" are just descriptions of a creature's attitude with respect to diplomacy -- "friendly", "unfriendly", "indifferent", etc -- which could just have been kept in the description of the diplomacy skill. But putting them under the list of "conditions" for reference doesn't actually may the game any more complex (though it does make the game look more intimidating). To put it another way, I think everyone will agree that D&D 5e does a great job of streamlining conditions. But most of conditions PF2's conditions also exist in 5e, it's just that many of them aren't given a specific name or listed in the "conditions" section.For example, 5e has an analog of PF2's "dying" condition -- in 5e it's the number of death saves failed -- it's just 5e (reasonably) didn't bother giving this a special name. In 5e the conditions "lightly obscured", "heavily obscured", "unseen", "lightly encumbered", and "heavily encumbered" all exist, but 5e (reasonably) doesn't bother listing them in its list of conditions. And most of the other PF2 conditions that don't appear in 5e's list of conditions still exist in 5e, but are just described under the relevant spells that bring these conditions about instead of being given a special name. E.g., the spells Confusion, Fear, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enthrall, Slow, Haste, etc. describe the analogs of the PF2 conditions Confused, Panicked, Enfeebled, Fascinated, Slowed, Quickened, etc., but just don't give them special names. I think overall 5e's approach is better -- it makes a game that's more accessible to new players. But PF2's decision to "code" everything doesn't actually make PF2 any harder to play. It just makes it more intimidating to new players.</blockquote>

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