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Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="Condiments" data-source="post: 8001832" data-attributes="member: 6802006"><p>It's definitely been interesting watching this thread unfold, and seeing everyone's perspective from those more steeped in the D&D 5e world than other RPG communities I usually travel in.</p><p></p><p>It's funny seeing modern tabletop RPGs from the perspective of "post 5e" world. To me, D&D 5e merely leaned into the over-arching trend of rules lite systems while still bowing to the sacred cows that it drags along like anchors. It's lightning in a bottle popularity is a mix of it being an accessible easy to grasp system, an iconic brand pushed by the corporate machine of Hasbro, and our generational need to get closer without technology. I was certainly part of that wave that surged back in 2014.</p><p></p><p>5e is a great system, but there are countless other rules lite modern alternatives that accomplish what 5e set out to do with more singular vision. 13th age, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Fantasy Age, Unity, Savage Worlds, Geneysis, Dungeon World, etc. 5e straddles the line between crunch and fluff, but I think is compromised by appeasing to so many audiences at once.</p><p></p><p>There is definitely a niche within the the RPG community for a game like Pathfinder 2e, which wasn't even on my gaming radar until recently. From what I've seen it tried to modernize the gonzo munchkin paradise of 3e/pathfinder, by keeping everything tightly balanced. This appeals to me as both a player and a DM who wouldn't touch p1/3e with a ten foot pole.</p><p></p><p>Seems like people in this thread are chafing at how tightly wound the system is, but consider the costs of the alternative. Picking through tons of options with pitfalls and traps sounds like catastrophe from a new player perspective, and wide spreads in player power sound like a nightmare to GM. After GMing my 5e campaign to 15th level with an optimized crew of a Sorcerer, Paladin, Ranger/Rogue, and Fighter I took a break from GMing for nearly 2 years. Just too much work to make the game interesting after a certain point. I expect the system to do most of the heavy lifting for me as I figure out what my group can and can't handle in combats. I expect to run monsters out of the book that can contend with players who have magic items. Anything else is just wasting my precious time that I can spending building interesting adventures.</p><p></p><p>Nothing wrong in realizing that a system isn't tailored to your preferences. That is why I don't GM 5e anymore, because to me it eventually becomes a boring slog. Paizo was smart in realizing they couldn't wrestle with 500 lb gorilla of 5e directly by imitating or iterating of their success. It'd be the WoW effect all over again, where the brand vortex just pulls everyone back. The smart thing is to carve a sustainable niche...time will tell if they can do it. However, they have won me as a customer with what they've created so far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Condiments, post: 8001832, member: 6802006"] It's definitely been interesting watching this thread unfold, and seeing everyone's perspective from those more steeped in the D&D 5e world than other RPG communities I usually travel in. It's funny seeing modern tabletop RPGs from the perspective of "post 5e" world. To me, D&D 5e merely leaned into the over-arching trend of rules lite systems while still bowing to the sacred cows that it drags along like anchors. It's lightning in a bottle popularity is a mix of it being an accessible easy to grasp system, an iconic brand pushed by the corporate machine of Hasbro, and our generational need to get closer without technology. I was certainly part of that wave that surged back in 2014. 5e is a great system, but there are countless other rules lite modern alternatives that accomplish what 5e set out to do with more singular vision. 13th age, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Fantasy Age, Unity, Savage Worlds, Geneysis, Dungeon World, etc. 5e straddles the line between crunch and fluff, but I think is compromised by appeasing to so many audiences at once. There is definitely a niche within the the RPG community for a game like Pathfinder 2e, which wasn't even on my gaming radar until recently. From what I've seen it tried to modernize the gonzo munchkin paradise of 3e/pathfinder, by keeping everything tightly balanced. This appeals to me as both a player and a DM who wouldn't touch p1/3e with a ten foot pole. Seems like people in this thread are chafing at how tightly wound the system is, but consider the costs of the alternative. Picking through tons of options with pitfalls and traps sounds like catastrophe from a new player perspective, and wide spreads in player power sound like a nightmare to GM. After GMing my 5e campaign to 15th level with an optimized crew of a Sorcerer, Paladin, Ranger/Rogue, and Fighter I took a break from GMing for nearly 2 years. Just too much work to make the game interesting after a certain point. I expect the system to do most of the heavy lifting for me as I figure out what my group can and can't handle in combats. I expect to run monsters out of the book that can contend with players who have magic items. Anything else is just wasting my precious time that I can spending building interesting adventures. Nothing wrong in realizing that a system isn't tailored to your preferences. That is why I don't GM 5e anymore, because to me it eventually becomes a boring slog. Paizo was smart in realizing they couldn't wrestle with 500 lb gorilla of 5e directly by imitating or iterating of their success. It'd be the WoW effect all over again, where the brand vortex just pulls everyone back. The smart thing is to carve a sustainable niche...time will tell if they can do it. However, they have won me as a customer with what they've created so far. [/QUOTE]
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