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Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 8002246" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>I am saying PF2 is the first game to bring 1 to 20 to my table with minimal modification of the APs. I ran high level characters, but it took tons of time to create encounters capable of challenging high level characters. There certainly weren't PF1 APs that challenged PCs as written.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm well aware you don't think that. That is why only time will tell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know plenty of people who turn away or don't even try games because they look overly complicated. I couldn't convince more than one player in my gaming group to try GURPS due the rules complexity and I really liked GURPS. The advantage PF1 had was that it was attracting an audience of players coming from 3rd edition. They were very familiar with the 3rd edition system and at the time they were starting, PF1 was going to directly compete with 4th edition D&D, a very different game.</p><p></p><p>Now PF2 has to compete with 5E, a much simpler rule book. I think given the state of the current market and competition, it is very relevant to note that PF2 is a big, intimidating rule book for someone coming from 5E. It's a different market now. And it will take some time to see if PF1 players adopt PF2. I think DMs will have a huge influence on PF2 adoption just as they always do.</p><p></p><p>If DMs take up PF2 and find they like it more than PF1 or 5E and take their players along because that is what they feel like running, then it will find a market. I know I'm not alone in that as a primary DM, I have a huge influence in what game my group takes up because so few of them want to put the work into running the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>PF2 and 4E are not alike no matter how many people try to make it seem so. I played 4E. I did not like it. PF2 is nothing like that game. Plays nothing like that game. And isn't 4E or even close to it. If it played like 4E, I would think I would have had the same reaction I had to 4E which would have made me quit.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am not hinting at anything. You are putting your own spin on things.</p><p></p><p>All I am saying is after being skeptical of PF2, avoiding trying it for months because it looked lame, and burning out on 5E, I am finding PF2 to be far more fun to play than read. The more I fiddle with it, the more I find I can do with it. The game interacts in interesting ways that are surprisingly good for story-telling. I don't feel locked in like some others seem to feel. I can only encourage people to give it a shot, run it to higher level, let your players fiddle with it, don't get too hung on following every little rule, and see if you can tell the types of stories you want to tell with the system. They might like it.</p><p></p><p>As far as your predictions versus what I'd like to see happen, only time will tell. I think those that give it a try will find it is more fun to play the more you play it and learn how it works. But I also acknowledge it's a big crunchy book that won't appeal in the same way 5E does with its simplicity, which may slow down its adoption as it tries finds a market. Whether or not it will be successful is a matter of time to tell.</p><p></p><p>The nice thing about these types of things is that talk is cheap, sales and adoption measured in sales of supplements and engagement will decide things. All I can say is I hope people give PF2 a good run. It's surprisingly fun in my opinion. Though it isn't perfect. My players at this point are missing the big, obviously powerful stat enhancing items of PF1 and are trying to get used to the small bonuses of PF2 magic items and one-shot wands that don't allow constant buff stacking they used to buy and accumulate. As a DM I don't miss tracking the ten buffs and magic item christmas trees you had to build each enemy with to challenge them. So they're going to have to get used to it as I have no intention of going back to PF1 or 5E as a DM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 8002246, member: 5834"] I am saying PF2 is the first game to bring 1 to 20 to my table with minimal modification of the APs. I ran high level characters, but it took tons of time to create encounters capable of challenging high level characters. There certainly weren't PF1 APs that challenged PCs as written. I'm well aware you don't think that. That is why only time will tell. I know plenty of people who turn away or don't even try games because they look overly complicated. I couldn't convince more than one player in my gaming group to try GURPS due the rules complexity and I really liked GURPS. The advantage PF1 had was that it was attracting an audience of players coming from 3rd edition. They were very familiar with the 3rd edition system and at the time they were starting, PF1 was going to directly compete with 4th edition D&D, a very different game. Now PF2 has to compete with 5E, a much simpler rule book. I think given the state of the current market and competition, it is very relevant to note that PF2 is a big, intimidating rule book for someone coming from 5E. It's a different market now. And it will take some time to see if PF1 players adopt PF2. I think DMs will have a huge influence on PF2 adoption just as they always do. If DMs take up PF2 and find they like it more than PF1 or 5E and take their players along because that is what they feel like running, then it will find a market. I know I'm not alone in that as a primary DM, I have a huge influence in what game my group takes up because so few of them want to put the work into running the game. PF2 and 4E are not alike no matter how many people try to make it seem so. I played 4E. I did not like it. PF2 is nothing like that game. Plays nothing like that game. And isn't 4E or even close to it. If it played like 4E, I would think I would have had the same reaction I had to 4E which would have made me quit. I am not hinting at anything. You are putting your own spin on things. All I am saying is after being skeptical of PF2, avoiding trying it for months because it looked lame, and burning out on 5E, I am finding PF2 to be far more fun to play than read. The more I fiddle with it, the more I find I can do with it. The game interacts in interesting ways that are surprisingly good for story-telling. I don't feel locked in like some others seem to feel. I can only encourage people to give it a shot, run it to higher level, let your players fiddle with it, don't get too hung on following every little rule, and see if you can tell the types of stories you want to tell with the system. They might like it. As far as your predictions versus what I'd like to see happen, only time will tell. I think those that give it a try will find it is more fun to play the more you play it and learn how it works. But I also acknowledge it's a big crunchy book that won't appeal in the same way 5E does with its simplicity, which may slow down its adoption as it tries finds a market. Whether or not it will be successful is a matter of time to tell. The nice thing about these types of things is that talk is cheap, sales and adoption measured in sales of supplements and engagement will decide things. All I can say is I hope people give PF2 a good run. It's surprisingly fun in my opinion. Though it isn't perfect. My players at this point are missing the big, obviously powerful stat enhancing items of PF1 and are trying to get used to the small bonuses of PF2 magic items and one-shot wands that don't allow constant buff stacking they used to buy and accumulate. As a DM I don't miss tracking the ten buffs and magic item christmas trees you had to build each enemy with to challenge them. So they're going to have to get used to it as I have no intention of going back to PF1 or 5E as a DM. [/QUOTE]
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