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Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="FrozenNorth" data-source="post: 8007514" data-attributes="member: 7020832"><p>I'm not the DM. I'm a player. So, yes, I am constrained by the rules as written unless the DM chooses to modify them.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, the structure of skills and skill feats gives you an idea of how the designer intended them to be use. Each skill sets out actions you can take by using that skill. Some are further gated by proficiency. Skill feats either provides a slight benefit to an action you could do, or allows you to use a different skill to perform an action.</p><p></p><p>By implication, if a skill feat allows you to do something, you cannot do that if you don't have that skill feat. Otherwise, that skill feat is useless. By looking at the published skill feats, you can also get an idea of what sorts of things are considered by the designers to be worth a skill feat. "Natural Medicine" allows you to use Nature instead of Medicine for the Treat Wounds action? OK, the value of that change is worth one skill feat (see Bargain Hunter, Courtly Graces, Lie to Me and Impressive Performance).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Group Impression (requires Trained in Diplomacy) - When you Make an Impression, you can compare your Diplomacy check result to the Will DCs of two targets instead of one. It's possible to get a different degree of success for each target. The number of targets increases to four if you're an Expert, 10 if you're a Master, and 25 if you're Legendary.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My point was that the distinction between Treat Wounds and healing magic was arbitrary. From a design perspective, it appears that the rule was included to prevent pop-up healing. From an in-game perspective, no justification is given as to why being healed to full hp does not affect your Wounded status unless you take 10 minutes.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>A DM <em>could</em> decide that any spellcaster can Conceal their Spellcasting by making a Deception + a Sleight of Hand check. Of course, there would be no need for a Conceal Spell in those cases, so the implication by the designers is that unless you take the Conceal Spell feat, your spellcasting is visible.</p><p></p><p>BTW, you are wrong about Charm. Charm always has visible effect: on a success, the target still sees the spell but thinks that your spell was something harmless (and not trying to influence them). Plus, in all cases, the effects of the Charm spell are visible to other people present.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Create a Distraction is a Deception(Charisma) check. The book indicates (again, see Bargain Hunter, Courtly Graces, Lie to Me and Impressive Performance), that using Performance to Create a Distraction costs a skill feat. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why would the player take the skill feat if you allow them to use Performance to Create a Distraction when it was relevant to do so? Why would a player attempt to use Performance to Create a Distraction in situations where it <em>wasn't</em> relevant to do so?</p><p></p><p>You seem to be running the skill feats in the same manner that I would if I were DMing PF2. Of course, as I DM, I don't really <em>need</em> Make a Request actions, or Make an Impression actions, or Create a Diversion actions, and skill feats that allow you to substitute Society for Diplomacy in Making an Impression. You could rip those skill feats out of the game, but even before that, the CRB skill feats include a bunch of skills that aren't really supported by skill feats, and taking out those skill feats makes things worse.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrozenNorth, post: 8007514, member: 7020832"] I'm not the DM. I'm a player. So, yes, I am constrained by the rules as written unless the DM chooses to modify them. Moreover, the structure of skills and skill feats gives you an idea of how the designer intended them to be use. Each skill sets out actions you can take by using that skill. Some are further gated by proficiency. Skill feats either provides a slight benefit to an action you could do, or allows you to use a different skill to perform an action. By implication, if a skill feat allows you to do something, you cannot do that if you don't have that skill feat. Otherwise, that skill feat is useless. By looking at the published skill feats, you can also get an idea of what sorts of things are considered by the designers to be worth a skill feat. "Natural Medicine" allows you to use Nature instead of Medicine for the Treat Wounds action? OK, the value of that change is worth one skill feat (see Bargain Hunter, Courtly Graces, Lie to Me and Impressive Performance). Group Impression (requires Trained in Diplomacy) - When you Make an Impression, you can compare your Diplomacy check result to the Will DCs of two targets instead of one. It's possible to get a different degree of success for each target. The number of targets increases to four if you're an Expert, 10 if you're a Master, and 25 if you're Legendary. My point was that the distinction between Treat Wounds and healing magic was arbitrary. From a design perspective, it appears that the rule was included to prevent pop-up healing. From an in-game perspective, no justification is given as to why being healed to full hp does not affect your Wounded status unless you take 10 minutes. A DM [I]could[/I] decide that any spellcaster can Conceal their Spellcasting by making a Deception + a Sleight of Hand check. Of course, there would be no need for a Conceal Spell in those cases, so the implication by the designers is that unless you take the Conceal Spell feat, your spellcasting is visible. BTW, you are wrong about Charm. Charm always has visible effect: on a success, the target still sees the spell but thinks that your spell was something harmless (and not trying to influence them). Plus, in all cases, the effects of the Charm spell are visible to other people present. Create a Distraction is a Deception(Charisma) check. The book indicates (again, see Bargain Hunter, Courtly Graces, Lie to Me and Impressive Performance), that using Performance to Create a Distraction costs a skill feat. Why would the player take the skill feat if you allow them to use Performance to Create a Distraction when it was relevant to do so? Why would a player attempt to use Performance to Create a Distraction in situations where it [I]wasn't[/I] relevant to do so? You seem to be running the skill feats in the same manner that I would if I were DMing PF2. Of course, as I DM, I don't really [I]need[/I] Make a Request actions, or Make an Impression actions, or Create a Diversion actions, and skill feats that allow you to substitute Society for Diplomacy in Making an Impression. You could rip those skill feats out of the game, but even before that, the CRB skill feats include a bunch of skills that aren't really supported by skill feats, and taking out those skill feats makes things worse. [/QUOTE]
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