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Pathfinder 2e: Actual Play Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="JmanTheDM" data-source="post: 8008026" data-attributes="member: 6791902"><p>PF2e GM here, reporting back after 2 more sessions under my belt - now at 5, every-other-week 4 hour sessions into Fall of Plaguestone using the official module on Roll20. I apparently run slow games - we're only at the 1/2 way point in chapter 2. we average 1.5 combats/session. Combats are taking on average 2 hours to run. Lots of RP, world building, discovery, and personalization / customization of the core module to make it our own.</p><p></p><p>thoughts since posting a few weeks ago:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">as a brand new PF GM and player (of any edition), but having hundreds of sessions of D&D 5e, the math is still taking some effort to get my head around. Level 1 and 2 D&D, typical bonuses are like +4, +5. PF2e PC's seem to be closer to +7's and monsters have been consistently in the +9-+11 range. numbers aren't bad, calibrating my brain and intuitively understanding what is a challenge or reasonable is still taking some efforts.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">oh god the conditions and traits are still really challenging. there's just so many of them! here is where I'm struggling the most.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Encounters are hard. part of this is my fault, as in a typical D&D game, I add substantially more difficulty in any encounter (Eg. more monsters, higher HP, environmental challenges). with 5 players in my group, the module designed for 4, and the very first encounter in this module being a pretty easy romp, I started ramping up other encounters. This has made for extremely challenging encounters that I'm now regretting. nobody has died, but boy, have the PC's been dropping a LOT. there have been 2 times now that a PC or animal companion has reached death 3 and it was only a miracle that they didn't die. Great drama - but I don't think it's good for EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Encounters are Deadly. with a level 1 or level 2 encounter with +11 to-hit, there are a LOT of crits. the last encounter I had had a [redacted] attack a group. 2 hits, 2 critical's, 2 PC's dropped. the party cleric commented "boy, I sure feel important in Pathfinder". he loves how important his battle medicine an healing is, but the others - not so sure...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">my poor player playing a sorcerer - can't hit a damn thing. I think there have been 2 sessions, 8 hours of play, when not casting a magic missile spell is just getting frustrated with his failure to hit, and the monster's saves at everything else. The Ranger faced this as well this week - but has been a bit more effective overall. I don't know how to fix this right now. but who want's to play a PC that's consistently under-performing?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">we all love how spell casting works. in fact, we all would have LOVED to have all spells follow the More Actions = Different effects model you see with Magic Missiles and heal as examples. IMO, this is as great a mechanic as the 3-action mechanic is, and I'd LOVE to see PF lean into this more!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">we all love the 3-action system. the battlefields feel super dynamic. I don't normally see a fighter-type retreat off of the front line to go to the Cleric to get healing. normally I see a call for help for the Cleric go to the front line. Last session, the Monk got beat-up a bit, retreated back to the cleric, did a ranged attack, and waited. basically because with 3-actions, he felt confident that he could disengage, get help, and re-engage without sacrificing 2 turns or other actions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lots of rules are being missed. this is just mastery and the fact that I'm playing D&D and PF2e, and well, they are close enough that there is a lot of bleed from one system to another. Thank god for a couple of online sites where quick rule lookups can be made. the CRB is really good, but not good for quick checks - as there are so many if/then conditions that require referencing multiple sections to get the entire interaction.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Persistent damage is HARD. the Battle with [redacted], causes Bleed damage that accumulates. needing to succeed at a Flat DC 15 check = 75% chance of failure = HP's were draining really fast. and there's not a lot that can be done to mitigate this during combat. Sure, the cleric can Medicine skill but that only triggers a new check with a 75% chance of failure. Granted, 2 checks/turn is better than 1, but those are still tough odds! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">we play pretty loose in Encounter mode and outside of combat for what Skills resolve and what you can do. I also play VERY loose with the Initiative rules. I literally had someone roll initiative using an attack roll because that PC was "Defending" before the encounter started. I'm trying very hard to be as flexible and creative here for PC's who come up with interesting tasks between encounters to reward their creativity but also really lean into a differentiation between systems. We've earned income using Religion to give sermons. we've used a background to also earn income. I know that this is not RAW, and kind of leans into House rule territory, but my instincts are telling me that the skills system is a framework for creativity and to reward the use of skills in non standard ways. doesn't this intrude on Feats? I have no idea. I guess I look at it this way. if you are someone good at driving, you may get lucky from time to time to swerve out of the way. if you are a trained stunt-driver, your training kicks in to swerve and it's a technique that you can recall. the difference is the difference between instinct and luck vs. training and knowing where best to apply your training. Can someone find a "loophole" to exploit a skill in lieu of investing in a feat? Sure! will they have fun and feel awesome? likely? will it break the game? I really don't think so. and for my home game, my only measure of success is for the players to leave the table at the end of a night happy, having had fun, and feeling like they accomplished something.</li> </ul><p></p><p>tl;dr: it remains a VERY fun to play and run system. there is general agreement that PF2e is very good. between sessions talk is turning more towards how to level and what to build - which is different/strange from a D&D perspective. combats are very tough - too tough the way I'm building them - and I need to make a few less challenging. what started as a potential 1-shot not knowing my players appetite for PF, has tuned into a group of 6 (myself included) non-PF players who are very engaged with this story and want to see it through, and is digressing into talking about what comes next, after Plaguestone ends. so, a win!</p><p></p><p>Cheers,</p><p></p><p>J.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JmanTheDM, post: 8008026, member: 6791902"] PF2e GM here, reporting back after 2 more sessions under my belt - now at 5, every-other-week 4 hour sessions into Fall of Plaguestone using the official module on Roll20. I apparently run slow games - we're only at the 1/2 way point in chapter 2. we average 1.5 combats/session. Combats are taking on average 2 hours to run. Lots of RP, world building, discovery, and personalization / customization of the core module to make it our own. thoughts since posting a few weeks ago: [LIST] [*]as a brand new PF GM and player (of any edition), but having hundreds of sessions of D&D 5e, the math is still taking some effort to get my head around. Level 1 and 2 D&D, typical bonuses are like +4, +5. PF2e PC's seem to be closer to +7's and monsters have been consistently in the +9-+11 range. numbers aren't bad, calibrating my brain and intuitively understanding what is a challenge or reasonable is still taking some efforts. [*]oh god the conditions and traits are still really challenging. there's just so many of them! here is where I'm struggling the most. [*]Encounters are hard. part of this is my fault, as in a typical D&D game, I add substantially more difficulty in any encounter (Eg. more monsters, higher HP, environmental challenges). with 5 players in my group, the module designed for 4, and the very first encounter in this module being a pretty easy romp, I started ramping up other encounters. This has made for extremely challenging encounters that I'm now regretting. nobody has died, but boy, have the PC's been dropping a LOT. there have been 2 times now that a PC or animal companion has reached death 3 and it was only a miracle that they didn't die. Great drama - but I don't think it's good for EVERY. SINGLE. FIGHT. [*]Encounters are Deadly. with a level 1 or level 2 encounter with +11 to-hit, there are a LOT of crits. the last encounter I had had a [redacted] attack a group. 2 hits, 2 critical's, 2 PC's dropped. the party cleric commented "boy, I sure feel important in Pathfinder". he loves how important his battle medicine an healing is, but the others - not so sure... [*]my poor player playing a sorcerer - can't hit a damn thing. I think there have been 2 sessions, 8 hours of play, when not casting a magic missile spell is just getting frustrated with his failure to hit, and the monster's saves at everything else. The Ranger faced this as well this week - but has been a bit more effective overall. I don't know how to fix this right now. but who want's to play a PC that's consistently under-performing? [*]we all love how spell casting works. in fact, we all would have LOVED to have all spells follow the More Actions = Different effects model you see with Magic Missiles and heal as examples. IMO, this is as great a mechanic as the 3-action mechanic is, and I'd LOVE to see PF lean into this more! [*]we all love the 3-action system. the battlefields feel super dynamic. I don't normally see a fighter-type retreat off of the front line to go to the Cleric to get healing. normally I see a call for help for the Cleric go to the front line. Last session, the Monk got beat-up a bit, retreated back to the cleric, did a ranged attack, and waited. basically because with 3-actions, he felt confident that he could disengage, get help, and re-engage without sacrificing 2 turns or other actions. [*]Lots of rules are being missed. this is just mastery and the fact that I'm playing D&D and PF2e, and well, they are close enough that there is a lot of bleed from one system to another. Thank god for a couple of online sites where quick rule lookups can be made. the CRB is really good, but not good for quick checks - as there are so many if/then conditions that require referencing multiple sections to get the entire interaction. [*]Persistent damage is HARD. the Battle with [redacted], causes Bleed damage that accumulates. needing to succeed at a Flat DC 15 check = 75% chance of failure = HP's were draining really fast. and there's not a lot that can be done to mitigate this during combat. Sure, the cleric can Medicine skill but that only triggers a new check with a 75% chance of failure. Granted, 2 checks/turn is better than 1, but those are still tough odds! :) [*]we play pretty loose in Encounter mode and outside of combat for what Skills resolve and what you can do. I also play VERY loose with the Initiative rules. I literally had someone roll initiative using an attack roll because that PC was "Defending" before the encounter started. I'm trying very hard to be as flexible and creative here for PC's who come up with interesting tasks between encounters to reward their creativity but also really lean into a differentiation between systems. We've earned income using Religion to give sermons. we've used a background to also earn income. I know that this is not RAW, and kind of leans into House rule territory, but my instincts are telling me that the skills system is a framework for creativity and to reward the use of skills in non standard ways. doesn't this intrude on Feats? I have no idea. I guess I look at it this way. if you are someone good at driving, you may get lucky from time to time to swerve out of the way. if you are a trained stunt-driver, your training kicks in to swerve and it's a technique that you can recall. the difference is the difference between instinct and luck vs. training and knowing where best to apply your training. Can someone find a "loophole" to exploit a skill in lieu of investing in a feat? Sure! will they have fun and feel awesome? likely? will it break the game? I really don't think so. and for my home game, my only measure of success is for the players to leave the table at the end of a night happy, having had fun, and feeling like they accomplished something. [/LIST] tl;dr: it remains a VERY fun to play and run system. there is general agreement that PF2e is very good. between sessions talk is turning more towards how to level and what to build - which is different/strange from a D&D perspective. combats are very tough - too tough the way I'm building them - and I need to make a few less challenging. what started as a potential 1-shot not knowing my players appetite for PF, has tuned into a group of 6 (myself included) non-PF players who are very engaged with this story and want to see it through, and is digressing into talking about what comes next, after Plaguestone ends. so, a win! Cheers, J. [/QUOTE]
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