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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8411860" data-attributes="member: 6778210">I mean, again, given how he defended it, I think he ultimately wasn't able to keep the two games straight and this ended up being detrimental to things. I think if you come into PF2 trying to play it like 5E, it's going to buck you a bit.2E. Excellent series of games, but shows off how utterly godawful magic could be. If you can't play it, I thought Ranged Touch's Mages and Murderdads series was a pretty good (and funny) book club-style Let's Play/Discussion of it. Though I fully recognize they are probably not everyone's cup of tea.I mean, my problems with 5E have been that you can mistakenly set up a TPK without realizing it. The problem is that the CR isn't consistent, and it's not even consistent with how it is inconsistent: at early levels it's way more difficult, but once you hit 4-5th level you're generally pretty solid and you can get the action economy to work for you (particularly true once all the martials start getting second attacks).But there are just huge blindspots, particularly with things like spells and saves. It's not even about being a nasty GM, but just being an efficient one can utterly mess a party up. And with how save progression goes in that game, it just gets worse. So if you are fighting one of the dozens of "Bag o' Hitpoints" enemies, you'll probably romp because you have a bunch of abilities to change the battlefield. But when they have spells and such? Man, I've always felt like I had to hold back a bit in 5E when I had a caster in play because high level casters can just easily demolish a party that isn't prepared for them, and 5E is good at lulling people into that sort of state.I mean, it's meant to create a sense of danger. That's the point of it. In 5E, that can lack because a lot of the enemies are just not all that great... unless they have spells, at which point things get rough. But PF2, for me, has been great at making martial enemies tough and interesting as heck. If you are fighting something that is going to be tough, you are going to look to try and find every advantage you can, rather than just being able to alpha-strike it away.And big damage criticals aren't wasted on minions; taking down stuff that would have normally taken time is the point of showing progress. I mean, Tripping is one of the big ones that you're missing, but there are other ways to apply penalties (through feats or spells) that hurt an opponent, let alone reducing their action economy. If you never got the hang of them, that's fine; maybe it's just not for you. But I don't think your thesis holds up more broadly.I don't really believe this because this is the only place where I see this happening. You say that this is what PF2's design encourages, but I have not seen people continually complaining about multiple TPKs within the system anywhere but here. If I google it, the first result is people asking about the TPK module, and then all these threads here on this board. I want to engage with this, but I just don't have a frame of reference in which to do so.</blockquote>

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