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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8419089" data-attributes="member: 12731">First off (and this is not an attack on you): my personal bugbear is people defending alignment with "if you don't like it you can always have your NPC buy a Hat of Non-Detection." In other words, just because D&D sooner or later (sooner in earlier editions) make every clunk go away does not a good argument for not fixing the clunk make.More generally, to me (and I am not alone in this) there's no point in creating or using a separate escape subsystem, since it all boils down to "magical escape". Either you escape or you don't. What's the point of learning a separate ruleset if all it can accomplish is preventing you from reaching this goal?What I mean by that is almost by definition such systems won't reward the main game's parameters that would suggest making escape easier (such as high Speed or whatever). So the distinction between "become good at this separate set of rules" and "magical escape" is simply not interesting to me.Either you keep using initiative and combat rounds and see if you can escape, or you simply look at the GM and hope she says "you escape".Many players become frustrated and outright angry if the GM "denies" them "total victory" by breaking off combat just to allow some NPC to get away... a player can even have made "nobody gets away - ever" his or her priority by focusing on movement-related abilities, even above regular combat capability.All I'm saying is that I miss acknowledgement of this in the discussion (that by now is pages back). In summary: no, it's far from obvious that the combat system doesn't work for escapes, and so it is far from an okay oversight if the GM advice doesn't discuss this... and it is much better if the combat system does work for escape without the crutch that is a completely separate subsystem.(And again, there's nothing special about PF2 here - if I'm making a dig, it's against D&D in general and not PF2 in particular)</blockquote>

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