Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2e: is it RAW or RAI to always take 10 minutes and heal between encounters?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8435617" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>They don't tell you how you get rid of these very severe and artificial restrictions. PF2 is a game where even high-level characters suffer from inexplicably harsh limitations - it comes across as a game where high-level heroes aren't trusted to do simple things: like crawl (or squeeze or jump etc) at more than a snail's pace. </p><p></p><p>At level 1 this might not be a big issue given how limited characters are otherwise. At level 10 or 20 it sticks out like a sore thumb. Having to find and take a specific feat just to get rid of a borderline-unplayable restriction is not a solution since it is no solution at all: if you pick quick crawler you can't afford to take quick squeezer, and if you pick quick squeezer you can't afford to pick quick climber. (Names might vary. I can't be arsed to remember the names of these obnoxious little pesky feats)</p><p></p><p>The core issue is that the game is incredibly ungenerous. What should be given out for free has been reserved for Paizo's design space. At every turn, Paizo has chosen to not just hand out something to everybody (that is sufficiently experienced and/or skilled), but instead to create this exasperating feats mini-game, thus ensuring nobody gets to ever feel whole. </p><p></p><p>It is unreasonable to ask a player to devote all his feat choices just to get rid of stupid limits that should not have been there in the first place, and are only there for Paizo to be able to brag about loads of options. </p><p></p><p>Options whose entire purpose of existance is only to negate or reduce artificial or reductive limitations are not solutions, they are problems.</p><p></p><p>I am arguing Paizo chose just about the shittiest solution to the problem imaginable: they wanted loads of options, but did not want to hand out actual agency for players to truly impact their characters, so they went the 4E nickel and dime route: they offer loads of "options" but very few that actually make a real difference. </p><p></p><p>And in this case, "options" that only allow you to act like a real hero could, unburdened by artificial and exceedingly harsh limitations.</p><p></p><p>That is not a case of "it's just a small difference between what you discuss and we discuss". </p><p></p><p>This is a fundamental issue to the core of the game design. It permeates the entire product, and it is one of the worst aspects of the game, that I maintain I need to rightly criticize.</p><p></p><p>Suggesting you can fix this by simply... ignoring what the feats do and the limits they alleviate... feels so reductive and unconstructive.</p><p></p><p>If we aren't allowed to criticize any game rules simply on grounds on "you can simply not use it if you don't like it" then you don't allow any meaningful critical discussion of any game ruleset ever. </p><p></p><p>Of course we must be able to say that Paizo's balance is derived in a large part on the assumption players and GMs obey the multitudinous niggling senseless little restrictions. Pointing this out to prospective players - without defending or dismissing it - is valuable consumer information.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8435617, member: 12731"] They don't tell you how you get rid of these very severe and artificial restrictions. PF2 is a game where even high-level characters suffer from inexplicably harsh limitations - it comes across as a game where high-level heroes aren't trusted to do simple things: like crawl (or squeeze or jump etc) at more than a snail's pace. At level 1 this might not be a big issue given how limited characters are otherwise. At level 10 or 20 it sticks out like a sore thumb. Having to find and take a specific feat just to get rid of a borderline-unplayable restriction is not a solution since it is no solution at all: if you pick quick crawler you can't afford to take quick squeezer, and if you pick quick squeezer you can't afford to pick quick climber. (Names might vary. I can't be arsed to remember the names of these obnoxious little pesky feats) The core issue is that the game is incredibly ungenerous. What should be given out for free has been reserved for Paizo's design space. At every turn, Paizo has chosen to not just hand out something to everybody (that is sufficiently experienced and/or skilled), but instead to create this exasperating feats mini-game, thus ensuring nobody gets to ever feel whole. It is unreasonable to ask a player to devote all his feat choices just to get rid of stupid limits that should not have been there in the first place, and are only there for Paizo to be able to brag about loads of options. Options whose entire purpose of existance is only to negate or reduce artificial or reductive limitations are not solutions, they are problems. I am arguing Paizo chose just about the shittiest solution to the problem imaginable: they wanted loads of options, but did not want to hand out actual agency for players to truly impact their characters, so they went the 4E nickel and dime route: they offer loads of "options" but very few that actually make a real difference. And in this case, "options" that only allow you to act like a real hero could, unburdened by artificial and exceedingly harsh limitations. That is not a case of "it's just a small difference between what you discuss and we discuss". This is a fundamental issue to the core of the game design. It permeates the entire product, and it is one of the worst aspects of the game, that I maintain I need to rightly criticize. Suggesting you can fix this by simply... ignoring what the feats do and the limits they alleviate... feels so reductive and unconstructive. If we aren't allowed to criticize any game rules simply on grounds on "you can simply not use it if you don't like it" then you don't allow any meaningful critical discussion of any game ruleset ever. Of course we must be able to say that Paizo's balance is derived in a large part on the assumption players and GMs obey the multitudinous niggling senseless little restrictions. Pointing this out to prospective players - without defending or dismissing it - is valuable consumer information. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder 2e: is it RAW or RAI to always take 10 minutes and heal between encounters?
Top