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<blockquote data-quote="wakedown" data-source="post: 7586511" data-attributes="member: 15901"><p>IMO, epic/high fantasy is more setting/world and plot than "character build".</p><p></p><p>Any edition is capable of taking unwitting teenager PCs into adulthood through a mysterious plot. Or being set in flying cloud giant fortresses where they ascend to such aboard dragons to rescue the princess before war breaks out between two nations. Epic fantasy was realizable in 1e/2e era gaming (consider a Dragonlance campaign in those days!). Powerful wizards have always been capable of landing Disintegrate and 3e/PF was the only era where it was mostly a PITA for an average player to do so (Spell Resistance and the DC scale).</p><p></p><p>One of my home groups (average caliber players) just switched about a month ago and our very discussion was they felt more epic from the get-go in 5e vs 3e...</p><p></p><p>The sorcerer: At 1st level his 3d4 (vs 1d4) Burning Hands took out out a "1st level mook warrior" adversary that jumped him when he was alone. His Sleep spell knew no limitations based on max HD and had no risk of retribution in the midst of casting, so he felt emboldened to use it a on 5th level baddie. At 3rd level he was capable of casting Fireball (which took 4th level before), at a solid 8d6 damage (vs 3d6 or 4d6 before).</p><p></p><p>The rogue: She was dancing into melee, sneak attacking, using two weapons and dancing away - all without a feat tax of Mobility, Spring Attack, TWF, etc. In 3e, she'd have to move then attack with only 1 weapon and end her turn next to that for (or she'd be waiting months to work up feat trees).</p><p></p><p>Also mentioned is 5e sessions advanced through plot must faster (2e speed) so we get to realize the epic fantasy faster in less game sessions/elapsed real life weeks. This was one of the biggest gripes from the same player group which attempted the PF2e playtest that used "3 actions per turn" and still required expending those actions in order to just move.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wakedown, post: 7586511, member: 15901"] IMO, epic/high fantasy is more setting/world and plot than "character build". Any edition is capable of taking unwitting teenager PCs into adulthood through a mysterious plot. Or being set in flying cloud giant fortresses where they ascend to such aboard dragons to rescue the princess before war breaks out between two nations. Epic fantasy was realizable in 1e/2e era gaming (consider a Dragonlance campaign in those days!). Powerful wizards have always been capable of landing Disintegrate and 3e/PF was the only era where it was mostly a PITA for an average player to do so (Spell Resistance and the DC scale). One of my home groups (average caliber players) just switched about a month ago and our very discussion was they felt more epic from the get-go in 5e vs 3e... The sorcerer: At 1st level his 3d4 (vs 1d4) Burning Hands took out out a "1st level mook warrior" adversary that jumped him when he was alone. His Sleep spell knew no limitations based on max HD and had no risk of retribution in the midst of casting, so he felt emboldened to use it a on 5th level baddie. At 3rd level he was capable of casting Fireball (which took 4th level before), at a solid 8d6 damage (vs 3d6 or 4d6 before). The rogue: She was dancing into melee, sneak attacking, using two weapons and dancing away - all without a feat tax of Mobility, Spring Attack, TWF, etc. In 3e, she'd have to move then attack with only 1 weapon and end her turn next to that for (or she'd be waiting months to work up feat trees). Also mentioned is 5e sessions advanced through plot must faster (2e speed) so we get to realize the epic fantasy faster in less game sessions/elapsed real life weeks. This was one of the biggest gripes from the same player group which attempted the PF2e playtest that used "3 actions per turn" and still required expending those actions in order to just move. [/QUOTE]
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