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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7590843" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>Which D&D are you talking about?</p><p></p><p>Early D&D (or OD&D) if you wanted a character to sneak past a guard it was DM's choice. In many games that meant a Dexterity check.</p><p></p><p>If the character was a thief, they got that dexterity check ON TOP of their other checks.</p><p></p><p>Just because one wasn't a thief did not mean that they could not actually use their ability scores to try to sneak past, steal, climb up a cliff with a rope, or multiple other items.</p><p></p><p>It was a later iteration that caused players to think this way (as it did not really notate this in 1e so some really weird people had a rule that a fighter could not walk quietly and could not climb things and other such crazy notions).</p><p></p><p>This got further reinforced with 2e...</p><p></p><p>But luckily nothing in the rules PREVENTED ability score checks (and prior to Non-weapon proficiencies ability score checks were actually encouraged, similar to how 5e handles many of it's skill systems, but less structured).</p><p></p><p>However, 3e I think sort of made this an even worse exaggeration of skills and such and it only started to change with 4e (which handled things similar to 5e but all around with a +5 to skills in general (instead of the +2 to +6 proficiency spread).</p><p></p><p>Your idea doesn't really hold water with the early thief class and how it was handled...though it probably holds water with LATER AD&D 2e and especially 3e.</p><p></p><p>As far as making the Thief a marksman...the crazy thing that people expect now is that some untrained lackey is going to have the same ability as a trained warrior. That a soldier is going to be just as proficient at hitting a mark as a guy that spends his days buried in a book, or a burglar who spends his time sneaking around. </p><p></p><p>Early D&D didn't have this ridiculous illusion of everyone is equally good with weapons and that a marksman who actually was a MARKSMAN (aka...a fighter that is trained in weapons and combat rather than some guy who uses weapons in his spare time adventuring but otherwise is a priest or a bookworm) and would hit better than others.</p><p></p><p>At level 10 he probably could hit an AC10 target pretty consistently. Even one who was at 5-7th level could probably hit an AC10 target pretty consistently, and probably hit their mark more often than others.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7590843, member: 4348"] Which D&D are you talking about? Early D&D (or OD&D) if you wanted a character to sneak past a guard it was DM's choice. In many games that meant a Dexterity check. If the character was a thief, they got that dexterity check ON TOP of their other checks. Just because one wasn't a thief did not mean that they could not actually use their ability scores to try to sneak past, steal, climb up a cliff with a rope, or multiple other items. It was a later iteration that caused players to think this way (as it did not really notate this in 1e so some really weird people had a rule that a fighter could not walk quietly and could not climb things and other such crazy notions). This got further reinforced with 2e... But luckily nothing in the rules PREVENTED ability score checks (and prior to Non-weapon proficiencies ability score checks were actually encouraged, similar to how 5e handles many of it's skill systems, but less structured). However, 3e I think sort of made this an even worse exaggeration of skills and such and it only started to change with 4e (which handled things similar to 5e but all around with a +5 to skills in general (instead of the +2 to +6 proficiency spread). Your idea doesn't really hold water with the early thief class and how it was handled...though it probably holds water with LATER AD&D 2e and especially 3e. As far as making the Thief a marksman...the crazy thing that people expect now is that some untrained lackey is going to have the same ability as a trained warrior. That a soldier is going to be just as proficient at hitting a mark as a guy that spends his days buried in a book, or a burglar who spends his time sneaking around. Early D&D didn't have this ridiculous illusion of everyone is equally good with weapons and that a marksman who actually was a MARKSMAN (aka...a fighter that is trained in weapons and combat rather than some guy who uses weapons in his spare time adventuring but otherwise is a priest or a bookworm) and would hit better than others. At level 10 he probably could hit an AC10 target pretty consistently. Even one who was at 5-7th level could probably hit an AC10 target pretty consistently, and probably hit their mark more often than others. [/QUOTE]
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