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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JeffB" data-source="post: 7897510" data-attributes="member: 518">Absolutely I can agree with what you are saying- I tend to post in two manners- The rational business perspective side, and then the Fan side. The two often are at odds with each other, and I can seem contradictory. To address your post-From the Fan side- First and foremost I'm aware I am no longer their target audience, and it makes me a bit sad because I was there at almost the very beginning- but I don't lose any sleep over gaming either. When I am speaking about backpedaling, what I'm getting at is the natural progression of the game. 4E brought in many new ways of doing things. 5E having reversed many of 4E's "steps forward"  seems like the natural progression from 3rd edition, not 4th. In the 13th Age core book, they describe 3E in a nutshell, its good points, its bad points and how 13A takes that forward. The next paragraph is the same, only talking about 4E- good, bad, what 13A does in taking it forward.  This is where I had hoped and wanted 5E to go- forward. Instead 5E threw out the 4E  baby with the bathwater because it had been such a cluster-F. So in many ways 5E went back to tweaked systems that are 40+ years old now.  As a fan, as someone who has been through EVERY edition -I was/am very excited by 4E. It was new, fresh. I like and prefer that in a new edition rather than re-treading the same ground. In addition- 5e also treads a lot of the same ground that C&C did, albeit the Trolls brought that out 15 years ago. I also play and own lots of other games.  So very little of 5E is fresh or new to me. As a fan- 5E leaves me cold. I continue to voice my opinion about 5E as a fan, whether it's rational or not because I am an opinionated SOB <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> . I hope that one day the property will go back to it's roots after WOTC has milked it for all it's business worth , and is sold to some smaller more personal/passionate company.(Though I quite likely will be too old to care/know when that day comes)Now scratch all that impassioned FAN BS above <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />From the rational non-fan business perspective-I am a lover of and firm believer in Capitalism.  5E is firing on all cylinders. I have said as much elsewhere, and I don't blame them one bit for doing things the way they are doing from that business perspective. They are catering to their biggest audience and experiencing growth in new ways and continuing in a business model that has proven very successful. They would be stupid to do it any other way. I have said before too, that I believe 5E is the best version of D&D that WOTC has put out (not my favorite- but the best). If someone said, sit down with any version of Core D&D and play straight outta the box without tweaking- BY FAR I'd play 5E because it's a tight solid game system. I enjoy running 5E, despite my passionate Fan cries for things that cater to me.I just don't know enough about the PF2 play experience. I have not run it. It seems there are things that superficially  4E-ish or took a 4E-ism to the next logical conclusion. I can see however that it's too cumbersome for my personal style to run on any long term basis. I don't really have the desire in my old age to delve deep into a complicated system/rulebook to figure it out- any complicated system.  If they brought out a BB, I'd be all over that and give it a go. Or if could find a decent one-shot.</blockquote>

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