Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7906786" data-attributes="member: 957">This is word games and misdirection, nothing more.   I didn't say it did things to "them" I said it did things to the fanbase.  Or, more accurately, I referenced WOTC making this statement/Nothing of any relevance.  Apathy and dissatifaction with the game as the best choice amongst options did far, far more.  Again, just playing word games.  You start requiring me to be pedantic and qualifying every word and phrase and then when I play that game you'll turn around and pretend that me doing that undermines my position.  Quite simply, context is clear.  Maybe you can't wrap your brain around it, which is a reason to doubt the validity of your comments.  Or maybe you simply need to obfuscate the conversation, which is a reason to doubt the validity of your comments.25 happy people is better than 4.  But this totally misses the point.  As was noted 4E sold HUGE out of the gate.  So lack of exposure was not an issue.The bottom line is that some people loved 4E, some greatly disliked 4E and some people were 'meh' about it.  But, in the end it was not among the top list of games of choice for way too many people.  Unlike 1E, 3E, and WAAYY unlike 5E, the D&D brand took a hard drop under 4E's tenure.  This doesn't mean that people didn't like it.  It doesn't need to mean that.  It only means that they liked it less than other choices.  And that is what we know happened.Again, the distinction here is already covered.  It would be idiotic to claim that there are not people who, to this day, LOVE 4E.   But it is hard to find a 4E game online and it doesn't have much presence.  I believe that those people who love 4E would be better off if their game had been more inclusive of the fanbase at large.  Unlike 4E, the book is FAR from closed on PF2E.  And, to clarify here, I don't see PF2E alienating the PF fanbase at all as badly as 4E did to the D&D fanbase.  So it could play out differently.  But it does not seem things are leaning in the positive direction.  And with zero regard for that, the people who LOVE PF2E will continue to love PF2E.  I have never been critical of loving PF2E.  I was never critical of loving 4E.  I stated over and over in each case that I appreciate the appeal to a certain niche and I only wish those playing the most fun experience possible.   But, when people say that not playing a game, and posting critical comments about it can only be the result of closed-mindedness, fear of change, or other even more nefarious aggressive motives then those statements are just to easy to play with.  And when people say that a game is widely popular despite all evidence to the contrary, well, that's just fun and I like to play.</blockquote>

Verification