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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7906874" data-attributes="member: 957">Saying this doesn't make it true.&nbsp; And, quite simply, it is entirely false. &nbsp;You failed to demonstrate your point.&nbsp; If you don't care about popularity personally, then cool. In that case you should have no concern over what anyone else said.&nbsp; You play your game and enjoy it.&nbsp; It is clearly because 4E was unpopular that you feel a need to argue the point.&nbsp; It is just that you refuse to accept what is now know to be closed book history.But lets take it another step:I routinely see pro-4E folks stating that a complaint they have toward 5E is all the backtracking and undoing of progress it gave in on.&nbsp; (I call it going back to where the wrong turn was made and correcting, six / half dozen&nbsp; shrug).&nbsp; They point to the fact that so many 3E holdouts through the 4E Era have embraced 5E as proof of their point.&nbsp; And yet it is beyond dispute that 5E has exploded the size of the hobby.&nbsp; It is a HUGE tent.&nbsp; And it is constantly praised for its diversity both in terms of cultural concepts and in terms of playstyles it embraces.&nbsp; &quot;Gatekeepers&quot; should be ENRAGED.&nbsp; They are not.&nbsp; (Granted the term &quot;gatekeeper&quot; is BS, so it is loaded for me to say &quot;they&quot;, but you should get the point).&nbsp; If you could fine ONE person whose perspective on 4E was as you describe, then you would find that person longing for the days of 4E to return as a far lesser evil.&nbsp; And yet you proclaim that EVERYONE who was critical of 4E is like this.&nbsp; The facts betray you.Sigh, I'm not going to refight a battle you already lost.&nbsp; The point is not the merits of these positions.&nbsp; The point is that these positions existed.&nbsp; They made people dissatisfied with 4E for reasons that had NOTHING to do with exclusion and 4E defenders were the ones deadset on excluding views dissimilar to their own.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 7906874, member: 957"] Saying this doesn't make it true. And, quite simply, it is entirely false. You failed to demonstrate your point. If you don't [I]care[/I] about popularity personally, then cool. In that case you should have no concern over what anyone else said. You play your game and enjoy it. It is clearly because 4E was unpopular that you feel a need to argue the point. It is just that you refuse to accept what is now know to be closed book history. But lets take it another step: I routinely see pro-4E folks stating that a complaint they have toward 5E is all the backtracking and undoing of progress it gave in on. (I call it going back to where the wrong turn was made and correcting, six / half dozen shrug). They point to the fact that so many 3E holdouts through the 4E Era have embraced 5E as proof of their point. And yet it is beyond dispute that 5E has exploded the size of the hobby. It is a HUGE tent. And it is constantly praised for its diversity both in terms of cultural concepts and in terms of playstyles it embraces. "Gatekeepers" should be ENRAGED. They are not. (Granted the term "gatekeeper" is BS, so it is loaded for me to say "they", but you should get the point). If you could fine ONE person whose perspective on 4E was as you describe, then you would find that person longing for the days of 4E to return as a far lesser evil. And yet you proclaim that EVERYONE who was critical of 4E is like this. The facts betray you. Sigh, I'm not going to refight a battle you already lost. The point is not the merits of these positions. The point is that these positions existed. They made people dissatisfied with 4E for reasons that had NOTHING to do with exclusion and 4E defenders were the ones deadset on excluding views dissimilar to their own. [/QUOTE]

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