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Pathfinder 2E's reception?
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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 7907642" data-attributes="member: 957"><p>Victim? I don't know about victim here. I have plenty of great games to play.</p><p></p><p>And, truthfully, the "set aside" does apply far more strongly to the "history" wherein there were multiple statements to the effect that dissatisfied fans were simply "not needed". </p><p></p><p>But, that said, I first do completely agree with Tony that we are seeing a second round of 3X core mechanic overreaction. I will agree that there are real issues with 3X. But the two biggest problems is has faced in the past several years are: 3X is still a game based on circa 2000 design and 5E is a game that has impressively evolved based on lots of great ideas (and failed experiments) which have happened since 3.0 hit the market. </p><p>If you just look at the mechanics and remove game age and new generation competition, you have a game that is a massive success (both under the WotC and Paizo banners). From Day One the complaints about certain flaws in 3X were there, but the overall "reception" (to firmly tie to the thread topic) was the so called "second golden age of gaming". But after that massive success, both team designed sequels which appear to ignore the reasons that the game was huge and completely focus on the complaints which were heard over and over despite the amount of great games going on all around. This is a true example of "vocal minority". </p><p></p><p>So, specific to me since you asked, both games resulted in mechanics which disregard concepts which I find mandatory in favor of creating a strictly math controlled experience. </p><p>And, as former fans, we find supporters telling us that our opinions can not possibly exist and can only result from things like fear of change or closed minded behavior. And when 4E came around, people like Tony made it clear that we could take our complaints and pound sand. But when 5E was announced those same people starting blaming non-adopters. (Which you still see here in this thread).</p><p></p><p>I see PF2E <em>fans</em> expressing the same sentiments that any consideration of the complaints of the dissatisfied should be shunned. And I predict that in the future the same reversal will happen again.</p><p></p><p>WotC did drop the PR ball a couple times and let out some comments openly disregarding detractors and openly siding with the pro-4E side. I have absolutely NOT seen this from Paizo, and to the contrary, there is at least one instance of Jason saying he is bothered by PF fans who don't see PF2E supporting them. So, at the company level I claim no equivalence there at all.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately I <em>have</em> been "set aside", because they went from the kind of game I like to this math constrained balance based game. But that is completely cool. I have zero expectation that Paizo owes me anything. </p><p>My comment was purely in terms of seeing the fan behavior cycle repeat. And I do see that happening and still predict that the cycle will fully complete. But I did not intend for it to sound more broad than that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 7907642, member: 957"] Victim? I don't know about victim here. I have plenty of great games to play. And, truthfully, the "set aside" does apply far more strongly to the "history" wherein there were multiple statements to the effect that dissatisfied fans were simply "not needed". But, that said, I first do completely agree with Tony that we are seeing a second round of 3X core mechanic overreaction. I will agree that there are real issues with 3X. But the two biggest problems is has faced in the past several years are: 3X is still a game based on circa 2000 design and 5E is a game that has impressively evolved based on lots of great ideas (and failed experiments) which have happened since 3.0 hit the market. If you just look at the mechanics and remove game age and new generation competition, you have a game that is a massive success (both under the WotC and Paizo banners). From Day One the complaints about certain flaws in 3X were there, but the overall "reception" (to firmly tie to the thread topic) was the so called "second golden age of gaming". But after that massive success, both team designed sequels which appear to ignore the reasons that the game was huge and completely focus on the complaints which were heard over and over despite the amount of great games going on all around. This is a true example of "vocal minority". So, specific to me since you asked, both games resulted in mechanics which disregard concepts which I find mandatory in favor of creating a strictly math controlled experience. And, as former fans, we find supporters telling us that our opinions can not possibly exist and can only result from things like fear of change or closed minded behavior. And when 4E came around, people like Tony made it clear that we could take our complaints and pound sand. But when 5E was announced those same people starting blaming non-adopters. (Which you still see here in this thread). I see PF2E [I]fans[/I] expressing the same sentiments that any consideration of the complaints of the dissatisfied should be shunned. And I predict that in the future the same reversal will happen again. WotC did drop the PR ball a couple times and let out some comments openly disregarding detractors and openly siding with the pro-4E side. I have absolutely NOT seen this from Paizo, and to the contrary, there is at least one instance of Jason saying he is bothered by PF fans who don't see PF2E supporting them. So, at the company level I claim no equivalence there at all. Ultimately I [I]have[/I] been "set aside", because they went from the kind of game I like to this math constrained balance based game. But that is completely cool. I have zero expectation that Paizo owes me anything. My comment was purely in terms of seeing the fan behavior cycle repeat. And I do see that happening and still predict that the cycle will fully complete. But I did not intend for it to sound more broad than that. [/QUOTE]
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