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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4123636" data-attributes="member: 51325">Hmm....Best choice to abuse is a half-elven cleric who puts the stat increase to wisdom. You can see why the WOTC designers never gave a core race that had a stat increase to a spellcasting stat.11th level half-elven cleric using Pathfinder+11 hpProficient with any one weapon of their choice+2 to WIS which results in the same problems as the +2 to INT does for wizards. Domain powers - Something interesting here, at first glance, they do seem to be weaker than their 3.5 counterpart (no extra spell per spell level since each domain has less powers AND no general domain bonus), however, if I'm reading this correctly, s 11th cleric with access to say Air and animal gets BOTH of the domain powers each day, unlike a 3.5 cleric that has to choose one of the two. So while a 11th level cleric in 3.5 has one extra spell per spell level every day (net number of spell = 6), the Pathforge cleric actually ends up with 8 extra spells per day (at caster level 1st, 2nd, 4th and 8th for each domain  x 2 domains). 2 extra feats (you just know this is going to be abused by spellcasters)More Healing in the form of turning. This simply blows CLW, Mass out of the water in terms of effectiveness (at 11th level, cleric does 1d8+11 using CLWMass compared to 6d6 using the PATHFORGE Turning system). So a cleric now has even less worry about having to hold back on his spells because his turning bonus now allows for group healingSomebody was saying something about the cleric being nerfed?I can see what Pathforge is trying to do with the turning/healing but I don't think they understand the problem.A CR 11 monster is supposed to use up 20% of a 4 person's group's resources. For the non-spellcasters, this is easy to calculate, namely the HP. It's the spellcasters that bork up the system.What happens when a CR 11 monster is run is that players tend to use their CR 11 equivalent spells, which for a 11th level spellcaster is his top shelf level of spells (namely, the 4th-6th level). Once a spellcaster uses up the top levels of spells, even though he has WAY more spells still available, chances are they aren't going to be effective against the target. This increases as you hit higher levels.Ex: A 15th level spellcaster that has used his 6th -8th level spells for the day, but hasn't touched his 1-5th level spells is fundamentally weaker than the reverse, namely a 15th level spellcaster that has blown all of spells level 1-5 but hasn't touched his 6th-8th level spells. Even though the former has probably DOUBLE the number of spells, the power of the 6th-8th level spells are such that they easily are more valuable.</blockquote>

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