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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dragonblade" data-source="post: 5687548" data-attributes="member: 2804">So with the news that Monte Cook is coming back to WotC R&D, I've been thinking about what I'd like to see in 5e. I have played both Pathfinder and 4e extensively and there are elements of both games that I'd like to see in a Fifth Edition.Starting off, here is what I LOVE from each game:4eSaves as defensesImplements that add magical attak/damage bonuses instead of having chargesStatic HPsPoint BuySelf-contained monster stat blocksSaving every round vs. spells/conditionsHealing SurgesInherent bonuses to remove magic item dependencyConsolidated skill systemHeroic/Paragon/Epic tier supportDMG chart of expected monster bonuses/damage output per levelCodification of status effectsCombat Advantage mechanicNo cascading buffsRitualsImmediate/Standard/Move/Minor action systemAction Points1/2 level bonus to defenses/attacks/skillsSkill training rulesPathfinderDistinctive and unique classesDistinctive and flavorful magic itemsRule books that are fun and enjoyable to readWide variety of flexible spellsMulti-classingEqually easy to run both narrative and mini based combatCMB/CMD based maneuver systemAnd here is what I HATE about each:4eMinis are requiredPowers are too limiting/fiddlyRituals are cool, but need some that can be combat applicablePowers and classes are cookie cutter/feel the sameMagic items are too fiddly/limitedHorribly limited multi-classing/hybrid rulesRule books that are boring to readNo mid-combat encounter power refresh mechanicPathfinderRandom HP and hit diceToo many fiddly combat rules that serve little purpose other than to annoy: (Crit confirmation rolls, can only charge in a straight line, double counting diagonal movement, etc.)Save or Lose mechanicsMagic item dependency15 minute adventuring dayWizards with crossbowsAs you can see there is a lot I like about 4e, but the mini's are mandatory, cookie cutter classes and fiddly powers really really kills it. This is where the "4e feels like a boardgame" meme really comes from.Pathfinder really excels with fun, flavorful, and unique classes. My only complaint is that too many classes powers rely on a daily refresh mechanic as opposed to something a bit more encounter based.My idealized 5e would probably use the base 4e combat and monster rules as its core engine, but would bring in the more flavorful and unique Pathfinder style classes and multi-classing rules.So drop the power system and the cookie cutter builds, but keep healing surges, static HPs, and retool the refresh mechanics of the powers so that not everything is tied to a once per day refresh. Create some at-will style base attacks so that wizards never need to resort to crossbows. Also strip out the movement tied powers and all the references to squares to bring back the flexibility to shift between narrative and tactical combat that Pathfinder does well. Keep the diversity of spells and magic that Pathfinder offers but rebalance for a system that allows the 4e style of saving every round.Make inherent bonuses a core rule, and make magic items both rare and powerful with enhancement bonuses that overlap but don't stack with inherent bonuses.I'll also give a shout out to M&M 3e which actually offers the flexibility of Fort/Ref/Will saves that act as defenses or as rolls depending on the situation. Thats also something I'd like to see in 5e.</blockquote>

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