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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8177649" data-attributes="member: 4348">I was not the one who said it, but I DO think something may be wrong when you design a game and think that the introductory combat to the system for beginning players should be challenging enough for them so that you start killing the PC's off before the players even have a chance to figure out how to play.That instantly made at least one of our group lose ALL INTEREST in PF2e.  It doesn't matter that we kept playing for a few weeks after that to give it a fair chance, after that combat, they had lost all interest.  Other items in that adventure also were not particularly fun to be honest (I know Paizo writes good adventures, or have in the past, though if this is a signal of what they are doing now, the comment above is right...that adventure in the BB is pretty dull overall...it's a straight dungeon crawl, but not one that is all that creative.  The most creative part was the creature in the pond in the cave...other than that...not that great of a dungeon crawl to be honest). Crafting something that make people to WANT TO AVOID your system is generally not seen as a good way to introduce them to your game system.I will say the Plaguestone adventure was more interesting at least, so they haven't lost it all, but that BB box introduction was BAD...at least for our group.  We have no intention of ever playing PF2e ever again...depsite our local Pathfinder fanatic wanting us to.  We gave it a fair shot via the BB and it's rules...and you know what...it turned us off even more than we were before.I've actually never had a Starter, Basic, or Beginner set ever do that where we were left with less desire to play the system than we had before we tried it out.  Of course, that's from the view of a bunch of players that were not big into Pathfinder to begin with, so maybe we are not the target audience...but that still should make someone pause and think about what they may be doing.With the PF BB (1e) I cannot say I was a big PF fan, but it was decent enough that I went from being sick of the 3.5 antics of the past to being willing to play in a PF1e game (which we have on occasion...even molified our PF fan in our group that though we will not continue with their PF2e games, we will do a Shattered Star campaign with them every other week with PF1e to at least keep them in their Pathfinder play).  After the PF2e BB box experience, which I expect is a sampling of what the full PF2e game is like...I really don't want to try it again.  It might not seem like much from a Non-PF fan, but that actually has a wide gulf of difference between the impact that the two BB boxes made on me.And note:  There are good things about the system, but there are some things that really turned me off about the system too.  For example, the AC of the enemies are about 1 or 2 points too high...every time...and as you get past level 2 the HP tends to make combats a little bit longer than desired, which unfortunately is a large part of the game, or at least the games we played.  The combats should be more exciting, but they seemed more of a drag as we went through the adventures.  I DO like some things I listed before, such as Fighters being able to actually be fighters because they are more skilled in weapons and armor as well as some other items...but compared to what drags the system down, or did for us in the BB game...not enough to make me want to play it again.</blockquote>

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