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<blockquote data-quote="ronaldsf" data-source="post: 8180154" data-attributes="member: 6672921">I'm actually trying to ask for details from Greywolf's story of a character dying to giant rats, and figure out why it happened. This is not &quot;living in a minmax bubble.&quot;With the Giant Rats fight, I can see a death happening to super-tactical players IF:1. Rat wins initiative, runs up to Kyra the cleric, crits with a natural 18 (18+7=25, vs. 15 AC), does average 9 damage. That rat or some other rat(s) then focus on the cleric and, say, land 2 more hits to take her down from her Max 21 HP down to 0. She then fails her Recovery Checks.2. If they knock out another PC instead, Kyra can stabilize them or cast heal to return them to 50-75% health.3. Meanwhile, the fighter hits on a +9/+4/-1 vs. rats' 15 AC, and does 1d8+4 damage per hit to their 8 HP. That fighter should be downing 1 giant rat per round on average every turn. This doesn't take into account the rogue, and the wizard who can cast magic missile if there is a rat that refuses to get hit.For Greywolf's group to lose a character to the Rats sounds like it would take some veeeery bad luck. Yes, Level 1 characters are fragile and are prone to dying to luck. But that is arguably true with every D&amp;D-derived edition (except perhaps 4e) and isn't exclusive to the PF2 BB. Level 1 5e characters are even more fragile. The 4 goblins at the start of Lost Mines of Phandelver from 5e's Starter Set are probably more likely to kill a character then these rats are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ronaldsf, post: 8180154, member: 6672921"] I'm actually trying to ask for details from Greywolf's story of a character dying to giant rats, and figure out why it happened. This is not "living in a minmax bubble." With the Giant Rats fight, I can see a death happening to [I]super-tactical[/I] players IF: 1. Rat wins initiative, runs up to Kyra the cleric, crits with a natural 18 (18+7=25, vs. 15 AC), does average 9 damage. That rat or some other rat(s) then focus on the cleric and, say, land 2 more hits to take her down from her Max 21 HP down to 0. She then fails her Recovery Checks. 2. If they knock out another PC instead, Kyra can stabilize them or cast heal to return them to 50-75% health. 3. Meanwhile, the fighter hits on a +9/+4/-1 vs. rats' 15 AC, and does 1d8+4 damage per hit to their 8 HP. That fighter should be downing 1 giant rat per round on average every turn. This doesn't take into account the rogue, and the wizard who can cast [I]magic missile [/I]if there is a rat that refuses to get hit. For Greywolf's group to lose a character to the Rats sounds like it would take some veeeery bad luck. Yes, Level 1 characters are fragile and are prone to dying to luck. But that is arguably true with every D&D-derived edition (except perhaps 4e) and isn't exclusive to the PF2 BB. Level 1 5e characters are even more fragile. The 4 goblins at the start of [I]Lost Mines of Phandelver [/I]from 5e's [I]Starter Set [/I]are probably more likely to kill a character then these rats are. [/QUOTE]

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