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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8182085" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>It wasn't complicated with the BB, or frustrating, just more time consuming. We all had different parts of the BB that were frustrating.</p><p></p><p>Obviously I touched upon one player's frustration already. That first impression on them was a doozy. There probably was no way to win them over to even want to play PF2e after that happened.</p><p></p><p>For me, I think the first adventure's dungeon was what really started making me sour on the game. I attributed it at first to being uninteresting, but on reflection on it, I think it may have been more about how small they made it (small meaning the rooms and corridors and such). With the system as it is, it seems as if it would encourage mobility and using options, but that dungeon really didn't let you use it. So, you have all these neat new tools that you want to try out, but you keep getting stopped by the way the Dungeon is designed, and so you can never really try them out...which leads to a frustration of sorts. Add onto that where you seem to miss an awfully lot (it could be just bad rolls on our part, which happens in sessions sometimes, but looking at the math, it seems that the monsters in general get much better to hit bonuses than the PC's in general, which probably adds to the idea that they keep hitting while you keep missing...which ALSO adds to frustration. We may have been hitting them just fine, but because they were hitting us MORE often, it felt like we were missing more...which also can add to frustrations...especially after 5e where PC's hit a LOT more often it seems).</p><p></p><p>The other players, I have my thoughts on what frustrated them, but this post is probably too long already.</p><p></p><p>Plaguestone was better and more inventive, but we still had the thing where enemies seemed to hit us FAR more often than we hit the enemies. Maybe we have bad tactics, but, this is our first time playing the PF2e game. </p><p></p><p>I would HOPE people don't expect first time players of the game system to automatically be experts simply because they have the BB.</p><p></p><p>I DO want to say, there ARE things I like about the PF2e system, and things I would love to see in 5e, but combat just seems to frustrating in general for me and that's a killer because so much of what we did involved combat. The IRONY is that right at the end of Plaguestone we ended up one evening without the cardboard standees and grid...and the theater of the mind actually seemed a LOT MORE FUN than using the grid. It may be the PF2e is a LOT MORE FUN with theater of the mind than with a grid and pieces to move around, but unfortunately most of our experience wasn't with TotM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 8182085, member: 4348"] It wasn't complicated with the BB, or frustrating, just more time consuming. We all had different parts of the BB that were frustrating. Obviously I touched upon one player's frustration already. That first impression on them was a doozy. There probably was no way to win them over to even want to play PF2e after that happened. For me, I think the first adventure's dungeon was what really started making me sour on the game. I attributed it at first to being uninteresting, but on reflection on it, I think it may have been more about how small they made it (small meaning the rooms and corridors and such). With the system as it is, it seems as if it would encourage mobility and using options, but that dungeon really didn't let you use it. So, you have all these neat new tools that you want to try out, but you keep getting stopped by the way the Dungeon is designed, and so you can never really try them out...which leads to a frustration of sorts. Add onto that where you seem to miss an awfully lot (it could be just bad rolls on our part, which happens in sessions sometimes, but looking at the math, it seems that the monsters in general get much better to hit bonuses than the PC's in general, which probably adds to the idea that they keep hitting while you keep missing...which ALSO adds to frustration. We may have been hitting them just fine, but because they were hitting us MORE often, it felt like we were missing more...which also can add to frustrations...especially after 5e where PC's hit a LOT more often it seems). The other players, I have my thoughts on what frustrated them, but this post is probably too long already. Plaguestone was better and more inventive, but we still had the thing where enemies seemed to hit us FAR more often than we hit the enemies. Maybe we have bad tactics, but, this is our first time playing the PF2e game. I would HOPE people don't expect first time players of the game system to automatically be experts simply because they have the BB. I DO want to say, there ARE things I like about the PF2e system, and things I would love to see in 5e, but combat just seems to frustrating in general for me and that's a killer because so much of what we did involved combat. The IRONY is that right at the end of Plaguestone we ended up one evening without the cardboard standees and grid...and the theater of the mind actually seemed a LOT MORE FUN than using the grid. It may be the PF2e is a LOT MORE FUN with theater of the mind than with a grid and pieces to move around, but unfortunately most of our experience wasn't with TotM. [/QUOTE]
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