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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8182798" data-attributes="member: 4348">I can explain why it takes a while in PF2e to make a character, at least for me and probably other players that were with us in our try of the PF2e.#1.  YOU HAVE to UNDERSTAND We had NO experience with PF2e (well, maybe limited experience, some HAD tried the playtest I believe, not everyone though).  Zero, None, Nada (with the caveat I added).  You start off the bat building your ability scores rather than rolling them, using a standard array, or even a point buy like system.  Every race, background, and class adds different numbers to your ability scores.  While those who are experienced with the system may know these off the top of their head, I DO NOT.  I have to read through them to understand what gives me what ability scores.  I STILL don't have these memorized.  Some make sense, others aren't something that would occur to me off the top of my head.  Reading through the options and making these decisions with your ability scores in mind just takes me longer because of this.  Perhaps if I were an experienced PF2e player I'd know all these ability score building points off the top of my head...but I don't.In addition, I did not see anywhere where it said you have to be an expert and memorize all that stuff to play the game.  If it had, you can be guaranteed we would not have even given it a shot.  However, because we did NOT know it at first, and because we do not have all these options memorized (even if it is more limited in the PF2e Beginner Box, it's still a lot for a beginning player of PF2e to grasp) it TAKES TIME.(edit - For comparison, 5e doesn't have the drawn out building of your ability scores, thus this is one section where 5e takes less time.  It takes less time for those unfamiliar with the system to figure out their ability scores, though perhaps someone who was unfamiliar with D&D would still have trouble deciding what to assign where which may add time).#2.  In the BB, once you choose your class you still have to decide what to add your other ability score points to.  They have to be different ability scores, so even if you only care about Intelligence, Dexterity, and Constitution if you were a Wizard, you still have to figure where you want that third ability score increase (You get 4 ability score increases, one is automatic depending on the class, you choose the other 3).  Perhaps experienced players know exactly where they want to put it, but I didn't.  With other systems it is relatively easy as you either already rolled it up by chance, you already know which scores (standard array) you want your highest scores to be in and don't really care what you put the other scores in, or with point buy you can focus the points on precisely the ability scores you want to max out with.  The PF BB forces you to sort of spread out a little rather than focus on a min/max type idea, or otherwise.#3.  This is a new system.  I am unfamiliar with it.  Period.  If you cannot understand that and why it may add to the time to create new characters, I'm not sure if you should be commenting on how long a character may take a new player to a system.(edit:  This would obviously also apply to any system new players are creating new characters with).#4.  In the PFBB you get Character sheets.  They are a tad more complex and confusing than your standard Character sheets in 5e and you need to understand what the differences between Trained and Expert are.  It's kind of like filling in a bubble sheet for a test, a test with many fill in bubbles.  The Skill system has a lot more options and I LIKE THE VARIETY more than how 5e does it, BUT...it means you fill in a LOT OF BUBBLES for the skills and other items on your character sheet.  I definitely felt I did FAR more writing and filling in on my character sheet than I have for any D&D game (including 3e and 3.5) for PF2e.  It takes time to fill that sucker out.  I don't know how anyone could cut that time down.(In comparison, 5e is much simpler.  You simply have a proficiency bonus and ability score modifiers, and they apply broadly, so filling out the sheet is much quicker.  You have far more limited skills that use your proficiency bonus and after that you don't really worry about it.  Shorter list and not as many differing numbers reduces the time to do this in 5e).#5.  In relation to #4 above, the book just gives you what equipment your starting character has, but it does not tell you the numbers that go with that equipment.  You have to flip back and forth in the book to get it down, or you have to write it down and than find the relevant information in the book to write it down.  Now, if you were really experienced with PF2e, you might be able to do this off the top of your head, but I can't.  Heck, I play 5e a bit and can't even do that with all the items in 5e, much less PF2e.All those things above made creating a character with the BB a longer experience than it would for me with 5e.  I imagine that if these are the tailored down options of the BB from the Full game, that it probably would take longer to make a character using the full Core rules than it does with the BB.  Hopefully that explains WHY it took me longer to make a character.  As I said, I didn't find it too complex or confusing, or even frustrating.  Creating the character was actually kind of fun, but it DID take time.  I'm not going to lie about that to anyone.  Simply put, it took quite awhile.  I think the GM of our PF2e BB game knew it would take time which is why they had us create characters PRIOR to the first session, so we wouldn't be spending that much time during the first session making new characters.</blockquote>

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