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<blockquote data-quote="kenada" data-source="post: 8196164" data-attributes="member: 70468">Huh. They changed the ogre warrior in the Beginner Box to use a different weapon. It’s probably a needed change. The ogre warrior in core is quite nasty for its level. I stand corrected regarding the ogre warrior vis-à-vis the Beginner Box. However, in the context of discussing core PF2, I don’t think it really negates the point. Even with just a <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=21" target="_blank">greataxe</a>, both Ezren and Merisiel can be killed instantly by lucky crits. Again, speaking of core.That the Beginner Box doesn’t include the massive damage rules is probably to its benefit. I wish they hadn’t changed things needlessly, but the massive damage rules in core are pretty bad. Like I said previously, past 2nd level, they’re only likely to ever come up due to falling damage. You need to have a large difference in levels (+4 or more IIRC) for monsters to risk doing enough damage with a max hit (so even then very uncommon).There’s an argument that the massive damage rules are there to recreate the old-school feel of lower levels being dangerous. That’s what the original conversation was discussing (the deadly style of play and character creation). In OSE, one can roll up a new character very fast. In PF2, you can create a character somewhat quickly if you know the system and have good tools to facilitate that (see: <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/pathfinder-beginner-box-review.677380/post-8182965" target="_blank">the digression on Pathbuilder</a>). Personally, I think the massive damage rules as written are at odds with the overall feel of PF2 (which is dangerous but with safeguards to prevent outright deaths).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kenada, post: 8196164, member: 70468"] Huh. They changed the ogre warrior in the Beginner Box to use a different weapon. It’s probably a needed change. The ogre warrior in core is quite nasty for its level. I stand corrected regarding the ogre warrior vis-à-vis the Beginner Box. However, in the context of discussing core PF2, I don’t think it really negates the point. Even with just a [URL='https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=21']greataxe[/URL], both Ezren and Merisiel can be killed instantly by lucky crits. Again, speaking of core. That the Beginner Box doesn’t include the massive damage rules is probably to its benefit. I wish they hadn’t changed things needlessly, but the massive damage rules in core [I]are[/I] pretty bad. Like I said previously, past 2nd level, they’re only likely to ever come up due to falling damage. You need to have a large difference in levels (+4 or more IIRC) for monsters to risk doing enough damage with a max hit (so even then very uncommon). There’s an argument that the massive damage rules are there to recreate the old-school feel of lower levels being dangerous. That’s what the original conversation was discussing (the deadly style of play and character creation). In OSE, one can roll up a new character very fast. In PF2, you can create a character somewhat quickly if you know the system and have good tools to facilitate that (see: [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/pathfinder-beginner-box-review.677380/post-8182965']the digression on Pathbuilder[/URL]). Personally, I think the massive damage rules as written are at odds with the overall feel of PF2 (which is dangerous but with safeguards to prevent outright deaths). [/QUOTE]

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