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<blockquote data-quote="Banshee16" data-source="post: 5212345" data-attributes="member: 7883">So, you're saying an elephant should have 1 or 2HD because it's not trained?&nbsp; I've always drawn a line in the sand (to a degree) with hp, between humanoid PCs and monsters (and animals).&nbsp; Nobody really expects an elephant to be tough because it's lifting weights and practicing katas in campaign off-time.It's tough because it's bloody well 12' tall at the shoulder, and weighs 8000 lbs (compared to the average 190 for a human male).&nbsp; That's 42x as much mass.I'd expect an animal like that to have a fair bit more HD than a humanoid.Animals like wolves?&nbsp; Maybe a lower number of HD is appropriate...but they only had 2 HD to start with, so I'm not really convinced that lowering it is really necessary.I've seen animals take a fair bit of punishment.&nbsp; I hit a deer with my car once.&nbsp; It kind of ducked, took the bumper on the shoulder, and then got up and jumped away.&nbsp; I figured maybe it was wounded, and got out to look for it, but it was long gone.The coyote my wife hit didn't get back up though.The bear my parents hit destroyed their car, then walked away.I was reading about a German Shepherd in Iraq that was rescued by some American soldiers.&nbsp; It had been tortured, had both ears cut off, and I think a leg severed.&nbsp; They nursed it to health, but the platoon was transferred to another base 70 km away.&nbsp; The dog tracked them by scent across the desert, on three legs, to show up at their new digs looking for his &quot;friends&quot;.They can be pretty resilient.If you drop animals to 1 HD, you lose other measures of resiliency....you lose BAB, skill points, and feats.&nbsp; Some of these things are somewhat necessary to give the animals the traits needed to simulate their abilities.&nbsp; Unless you want to do it all via bonus feats and skill bonuses.&nbsp; You *could* do it that way, but IMO the more exceptional bonuses you give out, the more swingy the creatures are for their CR.Banshee</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Banshee16, post: 5212345, member: 7883"] So, you're saying an elephant should have 1 or 2HD because it's not trained? I've always drawn a line in the sand (to a degree) with hp, between humanoid PCs and monsters (and animals). Nobody really expects an elephant to be tough because it's lifting weights and practicing katas in campaign off-time. It's tough because it's bloody well 12' tall at the shoulder, and weighs 8000 lbs (compared to the average 190 for a human male). That's 42x as much mass. I'd expect an animal like that to have a fair bit more HD than a humanoid. Animals like wolves? Maybe a lower number of HD is appropriate...but they only had 2 HD to start with, so I'm not really convinced that lowering it is really necessary. I've seen animals take a fair bit of punishment. I hit a deer with my car once. It kind of ducked, took the bumper on the shoulder, and then got up and jumped away. I figured maybe it was wounded, and got out to look for it, but it was long gone. The coyote my wife hit didn't get back up though. The bear my parents hit destroyed their car, then walked away. I was reading about a German Shepherd in Iraq that was rescued by some American soldiers. It had been tortured, had both ears cut off, and I think a leg severed. They nursed it to health, but the platoon was transferred to another base 70 km away. The dog tracked them by scent across the desert, on three legs, to show up at their new digs looking for his "friends". They can be pretty resilient. If you drop animals to 1 HD, you lose other measures of resiliency....you lose BAB, skill points, and feats. Some of these things are somewhat necessary to give the animals the traits needed to simulate their abilities. Unless you want to do it all via bonus feats and skill bonuses. You *could* do it that way, but IMO the more exceptional bonuses you give out, the more swingy the creatures are for their CR. Banshee [/QUOTE]

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