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<blockquote data-quote="ProfessorCirno" data-source="post: 4429388" data-attributes="member: 65637">I don't think he was correct in saying that 4e has no tactics, it just has very different tactics.&nbsp; 4e rewards you when you stay in line with the mechanics - your chess example works perfectly here.&nbsp; Chess has a very strict set of rules that you have to adhere to, and people make these huge strategies around these rules that hurt my head.&nbsp; Older editions - and the it's more prevelant as you get into the older editions - rewarded you for the exact opposite, for thinking OUTSIDE the mechanics and the box.&nbsp; In chess, you can't convince the enemy pawns to stage a revolution against their own inept king.&nbsp; There is a reason the ten foot pole was, for quite some time, standard adventurer equipment - it was just so damn USEFUL for doing so many things, and the rules never bothered telling you what those things were, because they expected you to be able to do that on your own.&nbsp; They also never told you what those things were because they knew they could never name them all, because as any DM can tell you, the players will always - ALWAYS - find a longer, more complicated, and far more convoluted way, to get past an obstacle, so long as it isn't the way you thought they were going to do it. I don't recall if that good ol' reliable ten foot pole still around in 4e or not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ProfessorCirno, post: 4429388, member: 65637"] I don't think he was correct in saying that 4e has no tactics, it just has very different tactics. 4e rewards you when you stay in line with the mechanics - your chess example works perfectly here. Chess has a very strict set of rules that you have to adhere to, and people make these huge strategies around these rules that hurt my head. Older editions - and the it's more prevelant as you get into the older editions - rewarded you for the exact opposite, for thinking OUTSIDE the mechanics and the box. In chess, you can't convince the enemy pawns to stage a revolution against their own inept king. There is a reason the ten foot pole was, for quite some time, standard adventurer equipment - it was just so damn USEFUL for doing so many things, and the rules never bothered telling you what those things were, because they expected you to be able to do that on your own. They also never told you what those things were because they knew [i]they could never name them all[/i], because as any DM can tell you, the players will always - ALWAYS - find a longer, more complicated, and far more convoluted way, to get past an obstacle, so long as it [i]isn't the way you thought they were going to do it[/i]. I don't recall if that good ol' reliable ten foot pole still around in 4e or not. [/QUOTE]

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