Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Gestalt questions

[Erioch]

I have been out of gaming for a number of years and i was invited to join a current game with friends. It is a high powered campaign and they are using Gestalt (whatever that is) characters. The GM is very good at making incredibly difficult encounters and I know the guys playing are seriously high on the power scale and that is where I am trying to fit in.

What I have to work with is a level 11 gestalt. What I was looking at possibly doing was a Barbarian/ Oracle of Battle straight through. Race I was given the green light for half orc/ half green dragon. For the oracle curse I was debating using Wasting.

Basically I just wanted to see if this would be decent enough for a really high powered game and see if maybe anyone had any input and see what I may be able to come up with. Thanks!

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

What are the others playing? What books are allowed? Are you using point buy (how much?) or rolling (your rolls?)?

When you say you can be a half-dragon, you mean the Dm's letting you play as that without penalizing you in any way? In 3E, it had a sizeable level adjustment, which meant when others were 4th level, you were 1st level. Just curious how that's working in your game, since PF doesn't use level adjustment. Does everyone have a template for free?

I have to caution you against Barbarian, it is a VERY bad combo with any spellcaster, since all your class features are rage-based, and you can't spellcast while raging. Wasting is also an anoying curse as a cha-based caster, to suddenly be bad at all the skills you have a high ability modifier in. I would do Tongues since it's the least annoying or Haunted, which is annoying but manageable and gives some great extra spells known.

 

[paradox42]

If the OP goes a dip in Barbarian, and sticks mostly to Oracle of Battle, then the possibility of going with a couple of levels in Rage Prophet exists- that's the main reason to combine those two specific classes.

I was in a game a few months ago with a guy who did that, went Rage Prophet with his 10th level- worked pretty well for him. He mostly used his spells for buffing, before combat, and played the tank during actual fights- so he didn't need his spellcasting. He was a better tank than the single-classed Fighter in the same party; could dish out like twice as much damage in a typical round (once fully buffed).

Admittedly I didn't see the character work very long, because that party TPK'ed shortly after we reached 10th, but it's telling that that character and mine were the last two functioning PCs until the Elder Mud Elemental got us (we rolled three natural 1s in the combat- the dice were just plain hating our party that night).

EDIT: Oh, Gestalting. Forgot. Even so, my prior comment stands- it can work if you're mostly using Oracle for out-of-combat stuff and don't care about casting in combat. I do agree that Wasting is a bad Curse choice though- Tongues is definitely the best for a tank Oracle.

 

[Ahnehnois]

In general, gestalt characters work best when you pick two classes with very different benefits. Different saves/attacks/special abilities and so on. The barbarian/oracle combo is not bad at all, but keep in mind that you can't cast spells during a rage. I'd focus on long-duration spells that make you better at fighting, or healing for after battles, or noncombat stuff.

 

[Erioch]

I would be taking a slight level adjustment for the half dragon template being added on which is fine. As for the barbarian oracle pairing i was mostly going to do that for the pre fight buffs for combat and for out of combat utility as well.

As for Wasting that was to pair up the immune to disease with the immunity to poisons granted via 1/2 green dragon. Tongues I did think about but that seemed kind of cheap. Lame sounded ok to get to become immune to fatigue after raging, but the movement penalty hurts without modifying it with something to increase movement speed.

I do not recall exactly what all the classes are being used but in short I know there is a paladin/priest, bard/ caster of some type, fighter archer, rogue/wizard etc. So no true melee characters in the group per se.

I thought the CHA negatives with Wasting are for social based skills and not everything CHA related minus intimidate? But something just seems interesting about a half orc/ green dragon that is immune to poisons and diseases and if he makes it to 20 using the Avatar of Battle in tandem with Mighty Rage etc and looking scary as hell to boot

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Lame sounded ok to get to become immune to fatigue after raging, but the movement penalty hurts without modifying it with something to increase movement speed.

Barbarians move at +10', so your move would still be 30' with the lame curse.

 

[Mad Hamish]

In general, gestalt characters work best when you pick two classes with very different benefits. Different saves/attacks/special abilities and so on. The barbarian/oracle combo is not bad at all, but keep in mind that you can't cast spells during a rage. I'd focus on long-duration spells that make you better at fighting, or healing for after battles, or noncombat stuff.

My recollection of discussions of it back when it was released was that it really depends on a lot of things what's the best way to go for gestalt

A problem with hugely different abilities is that you are only doing one of them a round so you're wasting a lot of potential resources and it's reasonably common for there to be limited overlap of ability scores needed so they can be painful to build. It wouldn't be uncommon to have to pick one side as dominant and the other as a sideline.

a cleric fighter could be very effective, a wizard fighter doesn't get quite as much benefit

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The biggest keys for a good gestalt character:

1) Don't spread yourself too thin. If one class needs all physical stats and charisma and another needs wisdom, and you don't want a negative int score to hurt your skill points...you've just spread yourself thin. Look for synergistic combos. Like Oracle//Paladin, which both utilize charisma, or Alchemist//Wizard, with Int synergy.

2) Try to have an "active" and "passive" class on each side. As noted above, you don't get more actions, so two spellcasting classes (especially if they use different casting stats and thus don't synergize) actually isn't necessarily a great idea. If you can pick one class with lots of always on benefits like feats or things with free action activation like rage, this combines well with an action-hog class, like most spellcasting ones.

3) Try to cover your weaknesses. You take the best base saves, BAB, skill points, and HD from each class. If your gestalt ends up with something like d8 HD, medium BAB, 4 + int skill points, only one good save, and less than 9th level spellcasting...you probably screwed up. Balancing this with ability score synergy can be tough, and it may require a judgement call. For example, while they use different ability scores, a Wizard//Ranger walks away with d10 HD, full BAB, 6 + int skill points, all good saves, 9th level spelcasting, and a bunch of bonus feats. The two classes just do such a good job of plugging each others' holes.

4) Avoid redundancy. You don't need a class on each side that gives you uncanny dodge. You don't need to pair two martial classes that give tons of bonus feats but little or no spellcasting or skill use. Really, my general rule is: If you don't end up with 9th level spellcasting from gestalt, you'd better have a LOT to show for it. A Barbarian//Fighter or Rogue//Monk may sound really cool, but they are very very bad ideas. Sorry, but they are.

 

[TarionzCousin]

The X Bonus to Y Stat table is really useful for making powerful gestalt characters--especially starting at a higher level.

Basically, the approach here is build up one class to maximum level. For the other side, you level dip in different classes to get specific bonuses, such as adding Wisdom to AC, or getting additional bonuses to Saves.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I hate the idea of dipping around in gestalt, it's just really cheesy. When I run gestalt, I strictly limit what multiclassing can be done (usually it'd be none and only one or two prestige classes, you should be able to make your concept work with two full classes, dang it!). But I suppose a lot of DMs don't do that and you could really abuse their naivety...

I'm just gonna suggest X // Y straight class combos, though. Cause I hate that other thing and am not even going to waste brainpower thinking of crazy combinations that you could do with it.