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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 5878954" data-attributes="member: 6681948">Show me how to build an item that grants +6 to hit for both weapons of a two weapon fighter using the Craft system and we'll discuss comparability.I think you overstate the case.This assumes, first, that the Wizard invests all of his wealth in Wondrous Objects and, second, that he always succeeds in Crafting the desired items, which means restricting himself to those items he can Take 10 on.  If he wants greater breadth, he needs more crafting feats.It also means that he only crafts items whose prerequisites are the free spells he gains for rising in levels, since his WBL should include any scrolls, purchased spells and captured spell books.  That's going to sharply constrain his options, even within Wondrous Items, since he needs another 5 Spellcraft ranks for every prerequisite spell not available to him.  And a lot of those prerequisite spells are not as great in combat, so he will become less awesome in combat.It finally assumes no party co-operation.  In most games I've played, any Crafter will Craft items for the team, not merely for himself.  You want that Fighter to use his feats and combat prowess to defend your scrawny wizard butt?  Maybe you should Craft some objects to help him with that task, multiplying his WBL as well.Other approaches could exist.  If we accept that a core assumption is that some portion of party magic items will be items found and retained, not sold for half price, and another percentage will be crafted by party members, then 50,000 gp worth of gear includes some acquired at a discount.If 5,000 gp value of your items was found, and usable as is, 15,000 value (not cost) was crafted, and 30,000 was purchased, then you needed to find items with a total value of 80,000 gp to have the correct WBL (the $30k being doubled as you had to sell those objects for half price and buy new objects for full price).But I still ask why WBL doesn't include expendable items you had, but expended.  They helped along the way, and they drained off some of your gold, so they definitely have an impact on your accumulated wealth.  If one character spent no money on expendable items, wouldn't he have more wealth than others who did spend money on expendable items?  Which one has the right wealth for his level?I don't think you can balance characters purely by the gp value of their magic items.  Even with precisely equal wealth, and exactly identical characters otherwise, some items will serve the character better than others.  How useful is that Quarterstaff, enchanted to a +7 equivalency on both ends, to a Wizard versus a Fighter who specializes in 2 Weapon Fighting with a Quarterstaff?  The cost doesn't change.  The utility sure does!In all fairness, I may not be the best judge of character to character balance.  Our players have always looked at the team, not the individuals - if we can make one character more powerful so the party benefits, go for it.  Find the synergies - the Oracle who cast Bless and the Witch who Evil Eye'd the opponent's AC down two points allowed the Magus to confirm a critical hit on an exact roll (either of the support character missing, wouldn't have been a critical).  So which of them was the "powerful" one who took that opponent down?  That Item Crafter will help out the whole team, in  our games, not just himself.</blockquote>

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