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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Roman" data-source="post: 4649159" data-attributes="member: 1845">Yes, certainly levels 15-20 would fit the epic moniker by almost any definition based on what the characters can do, but when one says 'epic' in a D&D/d20/OGL/Pathfinder context, these days it is inherently associated with levels beyond 20.  I completely agree with everything you said in this paragraph. Indeed, I believe the desire for open-ended advancement is the reason why the 3E Epic rules are as horrid as they are. This applies not only to monsters, but also to provision of interesting and differentiated features for classes at the appropriate levels, which becomes impossible in open ended systems. As such, open-ended systems, such as the one in 3E, are forced to rely on generic infinite progressions. Although that might be a nice few paragraph suggestion of how to continue advancament even beyond what is supported by the rules, it does not make a good system.  I am of two minds about this. I can see the benefit of starting anew, but I would be interested in seeing how you would pull-off the conversion of epic-rule characters into non-epic rules, if the DM (such as myself) wants to use an epic level character in a non-epic campaign... or conversely a non-epic level non-player character or eve a player character in an epic campaign. If you manage to pull that off in a satisfactory manner - hats off to you. I would venture a guess, however, that it would be very difficult to do well (or at least 'well' by my standards <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> ). Also, the question arises what happens to the 'non-epic' abilities the characters have already acquired when they rise to epic levels. Do the characters retain them, but simply not gain any more of them? Are these abilities, if retained, usable vis-a-vis epic level creatures? Do the characters have to undergo some form of transformation (perhaps acquiring a divine spark) to attain epic levels and use the reset-ruleset? To what extend do the abilities/statistics/etc of characters from the core system influence what abilities/statistics/etc characters have in the new system? The questions abound if this approach is taken. If you decide to go this way, I think it would be best if you combined the book with information about divinity (which may actually be a good idea whatever route you take with epic levels) and 'epic gaming' would actually be akin to 'divine gaming', which would also account for the fact why the characters are different enough that they use a different ruleset. Well, you definitely have my vote on that one! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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