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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zeitgeist" data-source="post: 6446859" data-attributes="member: 6786173">3 out of 5 rating for Pathfinder RPG Core RulebookI grew up playing the original DnD, Advanced DnD, and 2nd edition, TMNT, Robotech, Star Wars,  Conan,  GURPS,  RIFTS, Warhammer, Warhammer Space Marines,  and a host of other RPGs from the time I was just in 1st grade all through middle of high school.  Unfortunately, I moved during high school and was unable to find anyone else who played in my new hometown.  Fast forward about 20 years.  I played only a handful of games since high school, until the last two years.  I joined a very welcoming and fun group of people here in my area and jumped full on into Pathfinder.  I desperately wanted to recapture the fun of my younger years and wanted to find something I could do with my kids.  RPGs were one of those thing they seemed very interested in and every time we have run games together it has been a blast.  Okay now you know a little about me, so hopefully this review will make sense.My review will be on the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and therefore also a review on the system.The book:I bought this book early on in my return to the RPG world and sat down to read through it.  I was impressed with the quality of the book and printing, it feels great in the hand and is really quite fun to go through, especially for someone like me who loves books and has been away from RPGs for a while.  The art (Wayne Reynolds is fantastic in my opinion!) was great and imaginative.  The art really sold me and made me give this system and company who I was unfamiliar with a real look.  I was impressed with the amount of information and detail the book contained, liking so much about it.  The book gets most of its good marks form the presentation.  The book is somewhat disorganized, but not too badly.  The wealth of information was impressive, but overwhelming in a way.  The amount of rules and detail to those rules felt layers deep.  I knew right away I would buy and try this game, but would need to find a group of people to help me understand how to play.The system:The rules were deep and confusing though.  As I read more into the game I was struck by the steep learning curve and felt like I wanted to play it but was really confused by the system.  So I went down to my local comic/game shop (Thank goodness we have some in town), and looked for a group to play with.  The group was nice and took the time to teach me about the game.  The GM was extraordinarily good and I am grateful for his help in trying to understand the game.  Everyone was patient with me, as it took me a long time to figure out how the game was played.  I invested in a lot of books and attempted to play several games and full campaigns with my kids.  My spouse gave up quickly on it, saying they could not get into it, the rules and complexity drove them away.  This is a person who never played RPGs before, but really was enthusiastic at first.  Something I think should be a wake up call to the industry.  What I was finding as I GM'ed was that the game was way too complicated and I had to create house rules that frankly made it much more fun for me and my children.  But that is the problem with this book and the game system in general in my opinion.  I had to modify so many of the rules and fix the imbalances I found so much that I basically almost food no use for the book than an outline.  Games that I played with groups bogged down into mechanics and miniature and grids grinds.  The games slowed down so much, combat took forever, and the story seemed almost meaningless in a frenzy of stats , math and modifiers, and paperwork.  I dropped out of my groups, because I just wasn't enjoying the experiences that much.  This was not a reflection of the groups I played with, because frankly they were great and the GMs were very good.  What I was finding was that I was enjoying the game for the storytelling and chances to make decisions and the surprise in the exploration of the adventures the GMs put together.  My kids were finding the same things fun I was and not really liking much of what I wasn't liking in the game. Everyone except one of my kids, the one who loved stats, dice rolling, and had an extraordinary ability to remember rules, stat blocks, an intense drive to break and manipulate the system, and strategic designs on his characters and skills, and a strict desire that every rule be adhered at all costs, even if that meant alienating most at the table.  These same kind of people were in almost every group I have played with.  Now this isn't new to any of my experiences playing RPGs and in any system, and frankly I have no problem with these kinds of players I roll with them (Pun intended), and can find them very fun to play with, always amazed with their encyclopedic knowledge.  What I found though was that Pathfinder seemed to attract more of these kinds of players, because the game really seems to be more fun for them.  I do not know if it is system bloat, as my two years experience with Pathfinder has shown.  The game is so big, there is so much material, the system as a whole seems to be broken in some areas, with rules and stat blocks not being well balanced and compatible.  The world they created is very big and in some ways overwhelmingly so.  I dropped it as soon as DnD 5th came out.  Mostly out of exhaustion, never finding my groove with the system, and a desire to find the fun I missed in playing a game.  What I love about RPGs so much is the sense of adventure, exploration, ability to play a character I love in a world that is exciting and fun, make choices, and have options to play in a way that really sets me free.  Rules pin me down and complex worlds already outlined in so much detail kill the experience for me.  The imagination is not allowed to work.In summary, the book is pretty, the information deep, but confusing and complex.  The system itself and the whole Pathfinder world is bloated, imbalanced, feels chaotic and complex, and after giving it two years I have found it time to move on.  Sadly, my kids are very split on the game. I have some that love it to pieces, especially the books, almost more than playing it and other kids who refuse to play it, unless I play our house rules.  They like the books too, they are pretty to look at, but find no use for them other than to look at for ideas.  The Core Rulebook gets a generous 3 from me, the system gets a 2.  +One star for artwork, construction, and overall presentation; +One star for the ability to make this a stand alone book and its general organization and wealth of material; -One star for the complexity of the system; -One star for the poor editing, that I think makes the rules confusing and feeling incomplete, amplifying it's complexity and amount of detail. +/- One Star for it's playability. These cancel out and should give a total of two stars, or I can meet it half way and give it a half star.  I however will give it one more star, and this might be unfair to judge it against other games and it give it a score, but I will meet such a judgement half way.  In the field of games out there it just isn't poor, but definitely deserves average to me.  My experience wasn't all bad, because I have one child and know others, especially his friends that love it, and talk about it's many plus sides in comparison to other games.</blockquote>

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