Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder Second Edition: I hear it's bad - Why Bad, How Bad?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 7638836" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>I'll answer the question by referencing another game: Magic the Gathering. Each new set contains 200+ new or reprinted cards, but in each set less than 20 of them are actually "good" for constructing a deck. The remainder is either used for draft play, and some are intentionally bad as traps to teach newer players how to assess the value of a card. In essence, they are traps.</p><p></p><p>Paizo does something similar in Pathfinder, which they learned from WotC during 3e. Sometimes an option is subpar because part of the game was learning those traps and avoiding them. It's part of the metagame. Now, not all options are intentionally bad, some after goofs or just bad design, but others are there to make charops play possible. In other words, Paizo makes traps because some players like finding and avoiding them.</p><p></p><p>The rise of internet guides from red to sky blue were a result of finding traps and avoiding them, but also finding synergies (intended and not) to exploit. And as the game was "solved" from the charbuild standpoint, much like how MTG deck lists must be changed to remain fresh, new options were added to appease the solvers, while changes were made to monsters and adventures to accommodate the solved builds. </p><p></p><p>Nothing illustrates this better than something that happened a few years back; Paizo introduced a "core only" variant to the Pathfinder Society and there were people complaining that the latter scenarios of PFS would be unplayable with just Core Rulebook PC's because those modules were designed for PC's with options for newer rulebooks. I think that best sums up Paizo's predicament and why a 2e was going to need to exist sooner or later.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 7638836, member: 7635"] I'll answer the question by referencing another game: Magic the Gathering. Each new set contains 200+ new or reprinted cards, but in each set less than 20 of them are actually "good" for constructing a deck. The remainder is either used for draft play, and some are intentionally bad as traps to teach newer players how to assess the value of a card. In essence, they are traps. Paizo does something similar in Pathfinder, which they learned from WotC during 3e. Sometimes an option is subpar because part of the game was learning those traps and avoiding them. It's part of the metagame. Now, not all options are intentionally bad, some after goofs or just bad design, but others are there to make charops play possible. In other words, Paizo makes traps because some players like finding and avoiding them. The rise of internet guides from red to sky blue were a result of finding traps and avoiding them, but also finding synergies (intended and not) to exploit. And as the game was "solved" from the charbuild standpoint, much like how MTG deck lists must be changed to remain fresh, new options were added to appease the solvers, while changes were made to monsters and adventures to accommodate the solved builds. Nothing illustrates this better than something that happened a few years back; Paizo introduced a "core only" variant to the Pathfinder Society and there were people complaining that the latter scenarios of PFS would be unplayable with just Core Rulebook PC's because those modules were designed for PC's with options for newer rulebooks. I think that best sums up Paizo's predicament and why a 2e was going to need to exist sooner or later. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pathfinder Second Edition: I hear it's bad - Why Bad, How Bad?
Top