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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 4134227" data-attributes="member: 20564">Example for ranks:Let's say I have a character that over time from delving into many ruins and dungeons develops an interest in history.&nbsp; I can't retroactively change my class or race.&nbsp; No class has a focus on it - maybe the loremaster PrC or you could shoehorn bard and ignore most of what the class can do.&nbsp; Equipment?&nbsp; Maybe a +2 for a masterwork ... um, encyclopedia.&nbsp; Spending your one feat ever 3 levels on skill focus (know (history)) is a big investment.&nbsp; But a skill point or two every level can add up.&nbsp; It's the granularity of skill points that make them an important vehicle for the character.Example for more discrete skills:Let's take an example from my game.&nbsp; I've got one character who talks and listens.&nbsp; Good diplomacy and listen skill.&nbsp; But closer to the absent-minded professor trying to spot things.&nbsp; As a side note, I have an archer who's the exact opposite - an eagle eye from training it, but nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to listening.&nbsp; As a side note, for your example above, both are human, just core classes (none which can explicitly help spot or listen).&nbsp; Neither spent a feat or has equipment which modifies spot or listen, but somehow they are very different.&nbsp; The one that talks has a much better wisdom - but the lower spot.I'm confused about this &quot;time cost&quot; about skill ranks.&nbsp; A PC needs to worry about it only once in a while, and usually only adding a single level.&nbsp; It's 5 minutes, probably between sessions, when they are levelling up?&nbsp; That's no real cost.&nbsp; If you tell me that DMs (besides professional publishers) need to invest that time in each NPC, I'll laugh at you.&nbsp; Out loud.&nbsp; There may be some finger pointing as well.&nbsp; Maybe once every few adventures do I need every skill point accounted for with an NPC, usually a major villain.&nbsp; The rest of the time I'm doing like the examples for starting PCs and just giving out max ranks in the correct number of skills.&nbsp; Or in less skills for multiclassing.&nbsp; If I need that much detail.&nbsp; I'll often just have a few appropriate skills (spot +6, ride +8, bluff +6).&nbsp; Personally, that gives me leeway to improvise in a game.&nbsp; Meet a bunch of NPCs?&nbsp; Well, this one's the cook - and has enough unused skill points I don't need to make him an Expert or have a 16 Int to have the skill points to get ranks in it.Yes, what I do as a DM is much like the consolidated systems.&nbsp; That's because I want the granularity where it will do good - PCs, and a few major NPCs.&nbsp; Let them be special and stand out.&nbsp; A DM-shortcut method is fine for minions.&nbsp; But don't try to force it on PCs.Cheers,=Blue(23)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 4134227, member: 20564"] Example for ranks: Let's say I have a character that over time from delving into many ruins and dungeons develops an interest in history. I can't retroactively change my class or race. No class has a focus on it - maybe the loremaster PrC or you could shoehorn bard and ignore most of what the class can do. Equipment? Maybe a +2 for a masterwork ... um, encyclopedia. Spending your one feat ever 3 levels on skill focus (know (history)) is a big investment. But a skill point or two every level can add up. It's the granularity of skill points that make them an important vehicle for the character. Example for more discrete skills: Let's take an example from my game. I've got one character who talks and listens. Good diplomacy and listen skill. But closer to the absent-minded professor trying to spot things. As a side note, I have an archer who's the exact opposite - an eagle eye from training it, but nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to listening. As a side note, for your example above, both are human, just core classes (none which can explicitly help spot or listen). Neither spent a feat or has equipment which modifies spot or listen, but somehow they are very different. The one that talks has a much better wisdom - but the lower spot. I'm confused about this "time cost" about skill ranks. A PC needs to worry about it only once in a while, and usually only adding a single level. It's 5 minutes, probably between sessions, when they are levelling up? That's no real cost. If you tell me that DMs (besides professional publishers) need to invest that time in each NPC, I'll laugh at you. Out loud. There may be some finger pointing as well. Maybe once every few adventures do I need every skill point accounted for with an NPC, usually a major villain. The rest of the time I'm doing like the examples for starting PCs and just giving out max ranks in the correct number of skills. Or in less skills for multiclassing. If I need that much detail. I'll often just have a few appropriate skills (spot +6, ride +8, bluff +6). Personally, that gives me leeway to improvise in a game. Meet a bunch of NPCs? Well, this one's the cook - and has enough unused skill points I don't need to make him an Expert or have a 16 Int to have the skill points to get ranks in it. Yes, what I do as a DM is much like the consolidated systems. That's because I want the granularity where it will do good - PCs, and a few major NPCs. Let them be special and stand out. A DM-shortcut method is fine for minions. But don't try to force it on PCs. Cheers, =Blue(23) [/QUOTE]

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