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Message: <blockquote data-quote="igavskoga" data-source="post: 4134849" data-attributes="member: 41188">I've got to take small issue with two areas of admittedly perhaps philosophical/theoretical disagreement.I think you're being a little dramatic here.  Its not as if suddenly NPCs are rolling d12's or d100's to determine skill success.  The system is still the same - a modifier and a d20 vs a set DC.  There is no hypocricy involved in wanting one over the other in regards to the intended design goals of 3.x.What we are doing here is advocating granularity and choice where it is needed most - with the PC.  The PC can also choose to ignore it but it will be his or her choice.Streamlining on the back-end is great and I'm all for it, but my preferences go against streamlining the front-end when it takes away player choice.  Including skill points in the front-end with the newer streamlined (arguably) system on the back-end would still allow players to use that model if they so choose.Seems to me that's a bit of a strawman - and as I said previously they are not, fundamentally, different systems in the way you seem to describe.The time it takes groups to assign skill points is far too subjective to use as a valid argument, IMO -- there are so many variables and factors specific to individual groups that will affect how long it takes.  Though, and I will admit this is anecdotal so take it as you will, my experiences with playing 3.x since it came out is that assigning skill points for PC's takes very little time.  That time, btw, takes place at the end of, or between, sessions so it has no real impact on play.  If it takes place during play, then that's a group choice and is no fault of the rules.Also, if one is seriously taking the time to stat out every NPC and orc as if it were a PC, then again that's prep choice by the DM to be staggeringly inefficient in favor of detail that will never come into play.  This, like doing heavy work on minute setting details (which I love doing!) again is a matter of choice, not a fault of the rules.Sure, if I want to stat out a significant personality or recurring nemesis it takes time if they are complicated characters.  But I am one guy vs the 4-6 players I usually have -- I prefer to have the majority have more choices than the minority in this case, especially when there are so many tricks and shortcuts I can employ to reduce my prep time (which is typically negligible on a weekly bases and always has been -- unless I choose for it to be otherwise) which has no affect on the Players or their characters.Reducing prep time is a fair goal, and is one stated by the designers over on the Paizo board Design Discussion thread on skills.  My bone of contention with the implementation of that goal is that it requires IMO a "back-end" solution, under the hood if you will, and does not needlessly require tinkering with the front-end (in this instance anyway).  Especially when, IMHO, it takes away choice from the Players.</blockquote>

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