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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mournblade94" data-source="post: 4818701" data-attributes="member: 74608">4e did this.  Fighters In my opinion have always carried the party through the encounters.  I, and none of the players I know of, ever had a fighter that felt useless. I like the mage with Charm Person and the Fireball.  I am not willing to play a game system that would take that away.  I do not think it necessary to subscribe to the model that all characters should have one job.  I agree but maybe expand the class list and give 6 points instead.  There are alot of skills that I think fighters should be allowed.  There is no reason Sense motive should not be on anyone's list.    This is no fallacy.  I have never allowed the 15 minute days, so if a party nova'd in the morning, they had to wait for the cleric to pray at the right time, and the mage to have adequate rest in a 24 hour period.  Some of my most fun games have been the Rogue and Fighter pulling the party through. Obviously, they would not due against a full strength dragon, but it happens. Certainly not a fallacy.  I would call it common.   But now you have 4e to solve this perceived problem (which I think much less than people here actually report).</blockquote>