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<blockquote data-quote="eyebeams" data-source="post: 4881704" data-attributes="member: 9225">I have to admit, one of the things I really miss from older versions of D&amp;D was classes being in a hierarchy of complexity, starting with your basic fighter. In my group there are folks who had problems with 3e just because there wasn't an option like that - a guy who just hits, gets hit and doesn't worry about bonus feats and abilities - and some players want the system to go away more than others. I know I sometimes feel the fighter's slew of abilities sometimes detracts from the feel of &quot;farmboy picks up a rusty sword&quot; because ol' farmboy has enough feats to seem like a real pro, right from the start.So for a couple of years now I've been wondering how you'd reintroduce the basic, no-special ability fighter to 3e and now Pathfinder. The challenge is how to provide a base boost that compares to the slew of per level abilities and provides a motive to stick with the class.Plus, for maximum flexibility this guy should not *replace* the fighter, but should stand alongside him.So I've been thinking of the following for this class . . . what do we call him? How about the Champion:Proficient in all simple, and martial weapons and all armor and shieldsd12 hit dice+2 to attack rolls whenever the last class you advanced in was the Champion+2 to AC whenever the last class you advanced in was the ChampionAn everything-even saving throw scheme, perhaps similar to the old Monk's.Essentially, I want a guy who is a very &quot;generic hero.&quot; Very simple to run, with nothing beyond core feats to track - abilities don't change, aren't conditional if at all possible and can be folded into basic character traits. At high levels I suppose he's a Schwarzenegger type of classic action hero. *However* I don't think the above is perfect. So what would you folks suggest for this kind of &quot;old school new school&quot; fighter?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eyebeams, post: 4881704, member: 9225"] I have to admit, one of the things I really miss from older versions of D&D was classes being in a hierarchy of complexity, starting with your basic fighter. In my group there are folks who had problems with 3e just because there wasn't an option like that - a guy who just hits, gets hit and doesn't worry about bonus feats and abilities - and some players want the system to go away more than others. I know I sometimes feel the fighter's slew of abilities sometimes detracts from the feel of "farmboy picks up a rusty sword" because ol' farmboy has enough feats to seem like a real pro, right from the start. So for a couple of years now I've been wondering how you'd reintroduce the basic, no-special ability fighter to 3e and now Pathfinder. The challenge is how to provide a base boost that compares to the slew of per level abilities and provides a motive to stick with the class. Plus, for maximum flexibility this guy should not *replace* the fighter, but should stand alongside him. So I've been thinking of the following for this class . . . what do we call him? How about the Champion: Proficient in all simple, and martial weapons and all armor and shields d12 hit dice +2 to attack rolls whenever the last class you advanced in was the Champion +2 to AC whenever the last class you advanced in was the Champion An everything-even saving throw scheme, perhaps similar to the old Monk's. Essentially, I want a guy who is a very "generic hero." Very simple to run, with nothing beyond core feats to track - abilities don't change, aren't conditional if at all possible and can be folded into basic character traits. At high levels I suppose he's a Schwarzenegger type of classic action hero. *However* I don't think the above is perfect. So what would you folks suggest for this kind of "old school new school" fighter? [/QUOTE]

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