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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eyebeams" data-source="post: 4883535" data-attributes="member: 9225">Good point; Let's get rid of that then.I think the Beta is pretty indicative of it.That is a problem. The barbarian is a good yardstick and I admit that fast movement and rage are worse. This is a convincing argument to put the BAB and AC bonuses off until 4th. However . . .. . . I don't personally give a lot of weight to arguments that rely too heavily on build logic alone simply because it's not how 3e games tend to work in practice.Seems too weak compared to other classes as you level up. The Pathfinder Fighter is getting tons of extra feats, automatic weapon group to hit bonuses, AC bonuses from certain armor types and bravery.However, looking back at the Pathfinder fighter we have these AC, to hit and damage bonuses limited by weapon, capping at +4. So I can see further merits for your argument of +1/5 starting at 5th.</blockquote>