Pay-for-flaw system examples?

[Heretic Apostate]

In the GURPS thread on the main discussion board, mention was made of pay-for-flaw systems.

In GURPS, you take disadvantages to gain additional points to spend on attributes, advantages and skills. This encourages people to take the flaws they can conveniently forget.

But some people in the thread mentioned that there are newer systems out there where you have to buy your flaws. Then, whenever you roleplay out the flaw, or your character is affected by the flaw because of GM fiat, you gain extra experience points. Thus, it encourages roleplaying, at the expense of a min-maxed character.

So, are there any free examples of systems like this? Something on the order of GURPS Lite or the SRD would be nice.

 

[Crothian]

I haven't seen that type of system out there but it does sound interesting....

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Okay, found this quote:

"Disadvantages" are handled in a fashion that many games have, rightly, been moving away from in more modern games. Disads give you points at character creation, which rewards "forgetting" about them. Check out Nobilis for a better system, whereby REMEMBERING the disads, and working them in, is rewarded.

However, I don't want to buy a whole new system just to try it out. I don't WANT another system. I just want to house-rule it into d20.

 

[Kevin O'Reilly]

And you don't want this system: It's for elite gamers

 

[Halivar]

Heretic, I'm writing a system right now to cobble on to d20. I was going to wait until I finished to post it, but you beat me to it.

Basically, it amounts to using ability buy-points at character creation to purchase advantages/disavantages, with a limit on the points you could accrue through disadvantages.

Sort of also reminds me of Fallout character creation.

As for it being for elite gamers, this system can and will be abused by munchkins. My campaigns, and the campaigns I play in tend to be RP heavy where I can be confident the system will no be abused.

Anyhow, keep watching the skies! It's coming!

EDIT: There are literally thousands of possibilities for (dis)advantages, and there are hundreds in the GURPS core book alone (due to copyright issues, I think I'll avoid looking at it while I develop this system). Any comprehensive list is going to take a long time. I'll put it on my web-site when I'm finished.

 

[CCamfield]

Halivar, getting points back for flaws != "paying for them".

I haven't played Nobilis, but the original 7th Sea does something like this for backgrounds. You spend initial character points, or later XP, on a background. Every time the GM uses the background in an adventure, you get an XP reward.

(Some 7th Sea backgrounds: Amnesia, Cursed, Fear, Defeated, Hunted, Mistaken Identity, True Identity, Vow...)

I can definitely see how you could use this for a system of character flaws. Fear is sort of an example of this in 7th Sea; your character has some sort of phobia (the dark, spiders, etc) which puts him at a penalty in certain circumstances; but you get bonus XP if it comes up.

 

[Halivar]

Oh, when I said "paying for them," I was talking about the beneficial attributes you can get, too. In GURPS, you can get both disavantage and advantages. Advantages cost you points, while disadvantages get you points.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Oh, when I said "paying for them," I was talking about the beneficial attributes you can get, too. In GURPS, you can get both disavantage and advantages. Advantages cost you points, while disadvantages get you points.

Right. So, for instance, if I choose to take the disadvantage "One Hand," I get rewarded with extra points to spend on advantages and abilities (and skills?).

And later, after gaming with that character for six months, when the GM asks me why my character has a shield bonus to his AC, I can say, "Oops, my mistake!"

The problem with the "get points for disadvantages" deal is it rewards you for forgetting the disadvantage. I know all about that system. (I own, and have previously owned, a lot of GURPS books. Similar for Alternity.)

What I'm looking for is some freebies about systems where you actually buy disadvantages. So, instead of getting that five-point advantage, or raising your Strength score by another point, you instead spend those five points on a disadvantage. The reason being that, sometime during play, you'll earn additional experience. So here it pays to remember your disadvantage.

Anyone know of any free downloads of systems like that?

 

[whydirt]

There's an interesting system for disadvantageous backgrounds in Spycraft that could probably be incorporated into DnD rather easily.

 

[Halivar]

Hrmm.. that's a unique system, Heretic. Perhaps you should dig in and try a hand at it yourself.

You are, of course, right about players being rewarded for forgetting things. This type of system only works where people are honest, and are involved enough with their characters that they don't forget pretty major things like missing an eye or an arm.

It definitely won't be for everyone. For those groups that have a pretty good track record of trust and honesty (I always tell my DM when I accidently get some power he might not have intended me to, such as assigning me a template he might not have thoroughly investigated first ).

It's all about trust. If your players are gonna screw you over first chance they get, stick 'em with basic rules, no splatbooks, and avoid the headache. This sort of house rule really only belongs to groups who care about the game, and fun, above everything else.