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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9482624" data-attributes="member: 6684958">Love of system mastery and the fair gamers sure are common gamers.&nbsp; After all they come from the ranks of video, card, wargame players and the board game, classic game, sports players.&nbsp; Though note both groups have the same mindset of success only under absolute rules.&nbsp; And this is a big break for me vs most other gamers.&nbsp; They both only want to use a select set of rules they say are &quot;offical&quot; and they only want to play under a game style set up for them to win.The card playing system master gamers only want to use &quot;some&quot; decks.&nbsp; &quot;Everyone&quot; will agree &quot;expansion pack five&quot; is badwrongfun and donot use.&nbsp; And you must follow the strict game rules 100%.The sports or chess player wants that illusion of fairness...under strict rules.Both of the play types do fall apart in a RPG.....because RPGs are unique.&nbsp; The big huge special part of RPGs is that they are more then &quot;just a game of rules&quot;.&nbsp; Or, at least they can be.Take just last weekend.&nbsp; The System Mastery and Fair Game players have their characters hunting goblins in some ruins.&nbsp; When they encounter a mud pit trap.&nbsp; Now what they are expecting is an &quot;oh no a trap, roll a DC 12 to escape&quot;.&nbsp; And then each player will roll nearly automatically to escape and go &quot;wow what a trap&quot;.&nbsp; Of course, in my game style they fall into the trap no save and then find it hard to get out...even harder when the goblins attack.&nbsp; Put a couple PCs in a mud pit trap where they can't just &quot;roll to escape&quot;, and things fall apart fast.&nbsp; This is that third part of RPGS, that reality simulation part.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9482624, member: 6684958"] Love of system mastery and the fair gamers sure are common gamers. After all they come from the ranks of video, card, wargame players and the board game, classic game, sports players. Though note both groups have the same mindset of success only under absolute rules. And this is a big break for me vs most other gamers. They both only want to use a select set of rules they say are "offical" and they only want to play under a game style set up for them to win. The card playing system master gamers only want to use "some" decks. "Everyone" will agree "expansion pack five" is badwrongfun and donot use. And you must follow the strict game rules 100%. The sports or chess player wants that illusion of fairness...under strict rules. Both of the play types do fall apart in a RPG.....because RPGs are unique. The big huge special part of RPGs is that they are more then "just a game of rules". Or, at least they can be. Take just last weekend. The System Mastery and Fair Game players have their characters hunting goblins in some ruins. When they encounter a mud pit trap. Now what they are expecting is an "oh no a trap, roll a DC 12 to escape". And then each player will roll nearly automatically to escape and go "wow what a trap". Of course, in my game style they fall into the trap no save and then find it hard to get out...even harder when the goblins attack. Put a couple PCs in a mud pit trap where they can't just "roll to escape", and things fall apart fast. This is that third part of RPGS, that reality simulation part. [/QUOTE]

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