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Payn's Ponderings Traveller Editions
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8453438" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>Not quite.</p><p>Classic Traveller had a bunch of essentially modular substitutions...</p><p>For personal combat... ,</p><p>... CT Book 1 has the corebook combat system, and it's table heavy. CT Book 4: Mercenary adds a bunch more weapons, but doesn't change the system.</p><p>... Snapshot was a boardgame adaptation of Book 1. and includes the Book 4 weapons.</p><p>... Azhanti High Lightning (AHL) was a different combat system based upon Armor Penetration capability vs Armor Value.</p><p>... Striker was a minis wargame based upon the AHL .</p><p>... Book 4 also has an abstract combat system for resolving mercenary actions without actually playing out the combats.</p><p></p><p>For Craft Design...</p><p>... Book 2 (in the core) has a table-heavy ship design system which has a very age of sail feel ... no armor, only 3 types of weapon (Missiles, Lasers, and the defensive Sandcaster). The difference between pulse and beam lasers, except for cost, isn't included... (Pulse fire rolls for hits twice, but at -2, per Starter Traveller) It caps at "5000 Tons"... the tech level effects are actually in Bk 3... It also doesn't design small craft</p><p>... Book 5 (1979) includes a design and combat system for much bigger ships (up to 1 million {1e6} Tons.)</p><p>... Book 5 (1980) includes a very similar design system, but different combat system, and includes small craft design</p><p>... Striker has ground, air, and gravitic vehicle design systems</p><p></p><p>For ship combat...</p><p>... Book 2 is a tabletop minis game, essentially, with character tie-ins.</p><p>... Mayday is a wargame that is very closely derived from Book 2, and uses a hex grid.</p><p>... Book 5 is a fairly abstracted combat system designed to handle fleet on fleet.</p><p>... later printings of Mayday include rules for using its movement with Book 5 (1980) combat</p><p>... the boardgames <em>Fifth Frontier War</em> and <em>Invasion Earth</em> include fleet vs Fleet combat mechanics, but no details nor conversions rules.</p><p></p><p>For Trade:</p><p>... Book 2 1977 has a trade system that includes labeled speculative cargo lots, and unspecified freight lots to be carried for hire.</p><p>... Book 2 1981 has a number of small differences (especially passenger numbers), but is very much like the 1977 version.</p><p>... Book 7: Merchant Prince has a different trade system, with very abstract speculative cargos, but many more...</p><p></p><p>For System Generation</p><p>... Book 2 has a mainworld only system generation - no star types, no list of moons, only the presence or absence of gas giants.</p><p>... Book 6 has an expansion to book 2, that generates all the planets in the system, as well as the stars, and some of the local data.</p><p></p><p>Basic vs Advanced Character gen</p><p>Book 1 resolves in 4 year terms. Has Army, Navy, Marine, Scout, Merchant, and "Other"</p><p>Supplement 4 adds 12 more (mostly civilian) careers.</p><p>Book 4 adds advanced char gen for Army and Marines... year by year. Bk 4 characters have a lower Char Gen survival, but often have twice as many skills as basic gen.</p><p>Book 5 adds advanced gen for Navy, and differentiates system, Subsector, and Imperial Navies. Thiss starts to actually define elements of the OTU, as well</p><p>Book 6 adds advanced gen for Scouts. It also includes a differentiation between rankless Field Scouts, and ranked Administration scouts</p><p>Book 7 adds advanced gen for Merchants, including free traders, and a couple levels of lines.</p><p></p><p>Later materials (most after 1983) fully integrate the OTU, including Books 6-8, and all the large format "modules" - all 8 alien modules, Atlas of the Imperium, Spinward Marches Campaign (which advances the timeline from the early 1101-1106 of early CT, to the 1107-1111 Fifth Frontier War era), Alien Realms (a bunch of Alien Module needed adventures)... all presume the OTU is in use.</p><p></p><p><strong>MegaTraveller </strong>is written by Digest Group, under contract, for GDW.</p><p>They took Book 1 char gen, and expanded it, and added "Special Duty" and "Bonus Skills" to make basic characters capable of the smae number of skills as the various advanced gen. They also included the Supplement 4 additional basic careers; they also deleted "Other" with "Rogue." They made a lot more skills on the tables cascade skills (a cascade is a category - you pick one of the contained skills). They also added anagathics rules. The weapons list was not reduced, but the skills were... there went from individual weapon types to Large Blade, Small Blade, Polearm, Axe/Mace, Pistol, Rifle, Combat Rifleman, Laser Weapons, High Energy Weapons, and Neural Weapons.</p><p>They also included all 4 Advanced Gen options... mostly changing to use more cascades.</p><p>They opted to make a variant of Striker/AHL combat.</p><p>They hybridized Striker and High Guard (1980) craft design for ground, gravitic, and space vehicles all to be designed under one cohesive system; it did not include fixed wing nor rotary wing aircraft; those were in an expansion (COACC).</p><p>They merged and updated for better accuracy the Book2 and Book 6 system generation.</p><p>They used Book 7 Trade, but added detailed labels and chances for hazardous and/or perishable goods.</p><p>They included all the Library data from Supplements 8 & 11, and made a few additions.</p><p>They define (in <em>Referee's Companion</em> and <em>Rebellion Sourcebook</em>) system forces in terms of the values in FFW and IE... which are based upon infantry battalions and some level of squadrons. They alter slightly the nature of local fleets, deleting the "Subsector Navies" and replacing them with "Reserve Fleets"</p><p>They advance the OTU timeline from 1111 to 1117... and introduce the rebellion metaplot</p><p>It adds a consistent task mechanic, one which first appears in their CT supplements. After 1984, they were apparently the only 3rd party publisher for CT supplments to retain their license...</p><p></p><p>In an expansion, they added Flyer Advanced gen and aircraft design.</p><p></p><p>It's basically a consolidation of CT rules, and a particular subset of the modules chosen. Despite claims by many, it's not the first Traveller edition to include the OTU... that's CT's <em>The Traveller Book</em>. It's the first to totally focus on a metaplot in the OTU.</p><p></p><p>Ships designed in HG 1980 and MegaTraveller have compatible ratings, but not in the same format of presentation. And one can use either HG-80 or MT-HG combat rules - they'e a close variant of HG-80.</p><p></p><p>Characters are directly compatible.</p><p></p><p><strong>Essentially, MT is not so much "advanced Traveller" as CT 3rd ed... </strong>but many of the choices were suboptimal. Many CT refs adopted parts of MT, and some MT Refs discovered certain parts of CT, and so hybrid use is common.</p><p></p><p>As far as carry forward, T:TNE largely is a rework of MT design systems, but using the Twilight 2000 2.2 rules for characters and combat, expanded for the future-tech.</p><p></p><p><strong>Other Editions</strong></p><p>The setting materials from MT carry forward into all later editions except T4... but T4 uses the same design as T:TNE, but with different ratings. T4 is also set in year 0 to 100, rather than 1100-1115 of CT, 1116 to 1130 of MT, 1200 to 1300 of T:TNE, 990-1050 of T20...</p><p>MGT is set in the same time as CT. MGT is not, however, a mechanical compatible with any GDW/IG version. It's derived from, and for those not system-focused, close enough for convert-on-the-fly... but the ships aren't ratings nor design compatible.</p><p></p><p>T5 is conceptually T4 on steroids... but that's a whole rant I'm not goign to make.</p><p></p><p>T20, like MT, has ratings and design compatibility with CT Bk5 High Guard (1980) - which means it's also ratings compatible with MT and CT Bk 5. Some designs loose a bit of capability in T20. The combat mechanics, tho', are quite different. (They can be backported to CT or MT). The character rules in T20 are D20 system, built off the D&D 3.0 SRD. The T20 Trade Rules are Book2 on Steroids, plus provide some additional options not allowed in CT, MT, T:TNE, nor T4.</p><p></p><p>GT keeps the OTU, but diverges at an unidentified point well before 1116: The rebellion never happens, and since the planning alone for launching it would take the characters some 2+ years to happen, it's assuredly well before 1115. (Probably 1100 or earlier)</p><p>GT:IW is set before the OTU Third Imperium... it's the distant past.</p><p>Both GT and GTIW use GURPS rules, and GURPS Vehicles designs. They also seem to assume a lot more ships than other editions.</p><p></p><p>HT was only on sale for a VERY short time.</p><p></p><p>Also... <em>Traveller:2300</em> is a different setting, and a related ruleset to MT... it predates it shortly (under a year), and is essentially a wholly new game and setting with similar first principles, and using a 1d10 success & 3d6 time variant of DGP Task System (which uses 2d6 success & 3d6 time roll). It is not attribute compatible with any other editions. It's second edition was renamed <em>2300AD</em>. It's 3rd edition was for MGT 1e, and I believe it's been updated for MGT2e...</p><p></p><p>(MGT=Mongoose Traveller.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8453438, member: 6779310"] Not quite. Classic Traveller had a bunch of essentially modular substitutions... For personal combat... , ... CT Book 1 has the corebook combat system, and it's table heavy. CT Book 4: Mercenary adds a bunch more weapons, but doesn't change the system. ... Snapshot was a boardgame adaptation of Book 1. and includes the Book 4 weapons. ... Azhanti High Lightning (AHL) was a different combat system based upon Armor Penetration capability vs Armor Value. ... Striker was a minis wargame based upon the AHL . ... Book 4 also has an abstract combat system for resolving mercenary actions without actually playing out the combats. For Craft Design... ... Book 2 (in the core) has a table-heavy ship design system which has a very age of sail feel ... no armor, only 3 types of weapon (Missiles, Lasers, and the defensive Sandcaster). The difference between pulse and beam lasers, except for cost, isn't included... (Pulse fire rolls for hits twice, but at -2, per Starter Traveller) It caps at "5000 Tons"... the tech level effects are actually in Bk 3... It also doesn't design small craft ... Book 5 (1979) includes a design and combat system for much bigger ships (up to 1 million {1e6} Tons.) ... Book 5 (1980) includes a very similar design system, but different combat system, and includes small craft design ... Striker has ground, air, and gravitic vehicle design systems For ship combat... ... Book 2 is a tabletop minis game, essentially, with character tie-ins. ... Mayday is a wargame that is very closely derived from Book 2, and uses a hex grid. ... Book 5 is a fairly abstracted combat system designed to handle fleet on fleet. ... later printings of Mayday include rules for using its movement with Book 5 (1980) combat ... the boardgames [I]Fifth Frontier War[/I] and [I]Invasion Earth[/I] include fleet vs Fleet combat mechanics, but no details nor conversions rules. For Trade: ... Book 2 1977 has a trade system that includes labeled speculative cargo lots, and unspecified freight lots to be carried for hire. ... Book 2 1981 has a number of small differences (especially passenger numbers), but is very much like the 1977 version. ... Book 7: Merchant Prince has a different trade system, with very abstract speculative cargos, but many more... For System Generation ... Book 2 has a mainworld only system generation - no star types, no list of moons, only the presence or absence of gas giants. ... Book 6 has an expansion to book 2, that generates all the planets in the system, as well as the stars, and some of the local data. Basic vs Advanced Character gen Book 1 resolves in 4 year terms. Has Army, Navy, Marine, Scout, Merchant, and "Other" Supplement 4 adds 12 more (mostly civilian) careers. Book 4 adds advanced char gen for Army and Marines... year by year. Bk 4 characters have a lower Char Gen survival, but often have twice as many skills as basic gen. Book 5 adds advanced gen for Navy, and differentiates system, Subsector, and Imperial Navies. Thiss starts to actually define elements of the OTU, as well Book 6 adds advanced gen for Scouts. It also includes a differentiation between rankless Field Scouts, and ranked Administration scouts Book 7 adds advanced gen for Merchants, including free traders, and a couple levels of lines. Later materials (most after 1983) fully integrate the OTU, including Books 6-8, and all the large format "modules" - all 8 alien modules, Atlas of the Imperium, Spinward Marches Campaign (which advances the timeline from the early 1101-1106 of early CT, to the 1107-1111 Fifth Frontier War era), Alien Realms (a bunch of Alien Module needed adventures)... all presume the OTU is in use. [B]MegaTraveller [/B]is written by Digest Group, under contract, for GDW. They took Book 1 char gen, and expanded it, and added "Special Duty" and "Bonus Skills" to make basic characters capable of the smae number of skills as the various advanced gen. They also included the Supplement 4 additional basic careers; they also deleted "Other" with "Rogue." They made a lot more skills on the tables cascade skills (a cascade is a category - you pick one of the contained skills). They also added anagathics rules. The weapons list was not reduced, but the skills were... there went from individual weapon types to Large Blade, Small Blade, Polearm, Axe/Mace, Pistol, Rifle, Combat Rifleman, Laser Weapons, High Energy Weapons, and Neural Weapons. They also included all 4 Advanced Gen options... mostly changing to use more cascades. They opted to make a variant of Striker/AHL combat. They hybridized Striker and High Guard (1980) craft design for ground, gravitic, and space vehicles all to be designed under one cohesive system; it did not include fixed wing nor rotary wing aircraft; those were in an expansion (COACC). They merged and updated for better accuracy the Book2 and Book 6 system generation. They used Book 7 Trade, but added detailed labels and chances for hazardous and/or perishable goods. They included all the Library data from Supplements 8 & 11, and made a few additions. They define (in [I]Referee's Companion[/I] and [I]Rebellion Sourcebook[/I]) system forces in terms of the values in FFW and IE... which are based upon infantry battalions and some level of squadrons. They alter slightly the nature of local fleets, deleting the "Subsector Navies" and replacing them with "Reserve Fleets" They advance the OTU timeline from 1111 to 1117... and introduce the rebellion metaplot It adds a consistent task mechanic, one which first appears in their CT supplements. After 1984, they were apparently the only 3rd party publisher for CT supplments to retain their license... In an expansion, they added Flyer Advanced gen and aircraft design. It's basically a consolidation of CT rules, and a particular subset of the modules chosen. Despite claims by many, it's not the first Traveller edition to include the OTU... that's CT's [I]The Traveller Book[/I]. It's the first to totally focus on a metaplot in the OTU. Ships designed in HG 1980 and MegaTraveller have compatible ratings, but not in the same format of presentation. And one can use either HG-80 or MT-HG combat rules - they'e a close variant of HG-80. Characters are directly compatible. [B]Essentially, MT is not so much "advanced Traveller" as CT 3rd ed... [/B]but many of the choices were suboptimal. Many CT refs adopted parts of MT, and some MT Refs discovered certain parts of CT, and so hybrid use is common. As far as carry forward, T:TNE largely is a rework of MT design systems, but using the Twilight 2000 2.2 rules for characters and combat, expanded for the future-tech. [B]Other Editions[/B] The setting materials from MT carry forward into all later editions except T4... but T4 uses the same design as T:TNE, but with different ratings. T4 is also set in year 0 to 100, rather than 1100-1115 of CT, 1116 to 1130 of MT, 1200 to 1300 of T:TNE, 990-1050 of T20... MGT is set in the same time as CT. MGT is not, however, a mechanical compatible with any GDW/IG version. It's derived from, and for those not system-focused, close enough for convert-on-the-fly... but the ships aren't ratings nor design compatible. T5 is conceptually T4 on steroids... but that's a whole rant I'm not goign to make. T20, like MT, has ratings and design compatibility with CT Bk5 High Guard (1980) - which means it's also ratings compatible with MT and CT Bk 5. Some designs loose a bit of capability in T20. The combat mechanics, tho', are quite different. (They can be backported to CT or MT). The character rules in T20 are D20 system, built off the D&D 3.0 SRD. The T20 Trade Rules are Book2 on Steroids, plus provide some additional options not allowed in CT, MT, T:TNE, nor T4. GT keeps the OTU, but diverges at an unidentified point well before 1116: The rebellion never happens, and since the planning alone for launching it would take the characters some 2+ years to happen, it's assuredly well before 1115. (Probably 1100 or earlier) GT:IW is set before the OTU Third Imperium... it's the distant past. Both GT and GTIW use GURPS rules, and GURPS Vehicles designs. They also seem to assume a lot more ships than other editions. HT was only on sale for a VERY short time. Also... [I]Traveller:2300[/I] is a different setting, and a related ruleset to MT... it predates it shortly (under a year), and is essentially a wholly new game and setting with similar first principles, and using a 1d10 success & 3d6 time variant of DGP Task System (which uses 2d6 success & 3d6 time roll). It is not attribute compatible with any other editions. It's second edition was renamed [I]2300AD[/I]. It's 3rd edition was for MGT 1e, and I believe it's been updated for MGT2e... (MGT=Mongoose Traveller.) [/QUOTE]
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