PC and Monster occuping Same Space?

[Anubis]

It's implied, not stated.

In every instance where the book speaks of people being moved into an occupied space, the exact same thing always happens. The person moving into the space falls prone.

Due to that, it can easily be assumed that the rule applied for ALL situations. Simple logic. Just remember that it only applies when a person ends up in a space occupied by another, NOT when moving THROUGH a space. (In other words, any time you are FORCED into an occupied space or stop in an occupied space.)

 

[kreynolds]

I'm familiar with the Bull Rush rule where if the bull rush fails you go back five feet and fall prone, along with similar rules for trip, but like Chronosome I can't find a blanket statement where anytime you involuntarily find yourself in an occupied space you end up prone.

Also, if you pop your opponent with a knockback weapon, and your opponent fails his save and doesn't have any room to be pushed back the 10 feet, he falls prone where he stands. So maybe if you are pushed and don't have anywhere to go, you automatically fall prone. Hhmm. Tough one.

 

[twjensen]

Shifting

There are three distinct situations where shifting can be used as a direct "attack." Here's how I'd deal with each.

1) Shifter takes a large form to occupy squares that are currently occupied. Use the rules for bull-rush, including AoO.

2) Shifter takes a flying form, then shifts into a large form to fall on something. Shifter and anything below it take falling damage normally, BUT the creatures below have a reflex save with a fairly low DC, (gravity is constant, DC cannot be improved by feats or levels)

3) Shifter is eaten. This one has no real analog in other rules. I'd be inclined to do opposed fort saves. Loser takes 1D6 points / shifter level, max 10D6. If neither creature dies, repeat each round until one or the other dies.

I am especially interested in people's ideas of what to do if a shifter is eaten.

 

[EOL]

Re: Shifting

I am especially interested in people's ideas of what to do if a shifter is eaten.

You might consider posting that question under a seperate thread.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Re: Shifting

3) Shifter is eaten. This one has no real analog in other rules. I'd be inclined to do opposed fort saves. Loser takes 1D6 points / shifter level, max 10D6. If neither creature dies, repeat each round until one or the other dies.

I am especially interested in people's ideas of what to do if a shifter is eaten. [/B]

I would say they both take d6 damage until either one dies or the shifter decides to abandon the change attempt, or possibly the shifter is regurgitated and the swallower is stunned for one round. Keep rolling d6 damage and applying evenly to both until someone cries uncle!

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Shifting

I am especially interested in people's ideas of what to do if a shifter is eaten.

Well, most people chew their food before they swallow it so your poor shifter would be grappled and take bite damage every round from the guy chewing him. Oh well, it's a pointless tactic for combat anyway, but fitting in a purely-role-play situation.

As far as a monster occupying someone's square from shapechanging, I still say anything that is in the shifting creature's way gets knocked back. If there isn't enough room for the creature to fully change size and push everyone back, because the room is too small, I would say the shapeshift fails. Just trying to steer this thread back on track. Any other opinions?

 

[EOL]

Re: Re: Shifting

Well, most people chew their food before they swallow it so your poor shifter would be grappled and take bite damage every round from the guy chewing him. Oh well, it's a pointless tactic for combat anyway, but fitting in a purely-role-play situation.

As far as a monster occupying someone's square from shapechanging, I still say anything that is in the shifting creature's way gets knocked back. If there isn't enough room for the creature to fully change size and push everyone back, because the room is too small, I would say the shapeshift fails. Just trying to steer this thread back on track. Any other opinions?

Well if we assume that the shape change isn't instantaneous (at best it's a move equivilant), say that it takes 2 or three seconds, that's quite a bit of time to get out of the way. Now I know that doesn't fit in with the way people take turns, but I believe that in this case it would be fair to give people in the way of the shift/shapechange a reflex save to just see if they can exit the affected area.

Although if they want to stay and suffer the affects of Bull Rush in exchange for an AoO that would probably be nicely balanced. The question then is what str to use for the bull rush. I would be inclined to do something based on size (like 10+5 STR for every size above medium) although you could use the str of the creature being changed into.

 

[kreynolds]

But if you are standing next to a chicken and it suddenly shapeshifts into a huge dragon, it doesn't really matter how strong you are, you're going to get pushed back. It's a matter of mass and volume, not strength. However, if everyone surrounding the shapeshifting creature made their strength check, they would effectively be interposing barriers and the shapeshift would fail.

If you allow opponents a save of some kind, what happens if they succeed in their saving throw? Presumably, they would get to stay where they are, but if only 1 out of several opponents makes their save, and that's not enough to stop the shapeshift, what happens to them? Do they step out of the way willingly? Do they get an AoO? Do they fall prone? Choices, choices, choices.