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<blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 5005985" data-attributes="member: 15538">Neither diplomacy nor bluff are mind control. The best possible diplomacy check result is that the character will think well of him and give him the benefit of the doubt, not that they will agree to any particular thing. &quot;This skill represents the ability to give others the right impression of yourself, to negoatiate effectively, and to influence others.&quot; If you make a red dragon Friendly, it will give you a Friendly warning not to steal its stuff or it will kill you. The Bluff skill indicated &quot;that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time.&quot; It does not require that they continue, upon reflection, to think you are making sense or are really telling the truth. Bluff only makes something plausible and convinces the target to belive it. Eventually, if the PC pushes things too far, they are going to be upon against the +20 Sense Motive modifier (&quot;Your bluff is way out there, almost too incredible to consider.&quot; - &quot;Oh, it wasn't you, this time? Yeah, that's totally believable. Riiiight&quot;). Of course, some characters could make such a check. It's possible to make a character who basically sounds believable, all the time. Other characters may not be sure what to believe when they talk to him. But as the book says, &quot;Bluff... is not the suggestion spell&quot; and characters are free to be skeptical. Specifically, Bluffing someone that you are 20' tall, even if possible, is useless, because they can see you and the effects of your Bluff check will be countered by the evidence of their eyes. Also, the highest level of Bluff difficult is &quot;almost too incredible to consider.&quot; Literally too incredible to consider is not a possible result of Bluff, by the rules.Also, &quot;Bluffing requires interaction between you and the target.&quot; If the other PCs simply punch him every time he starts talking, Bluffing is not possible.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pawsplay, post: 5005985, member: 15538"] Neither diplomacy nor bluff are mind control. The best possible diplomacy check result is that the character will think well of him and give him the benefit of the doubt, not that they will agree to any particular thing. "This skill represents the ability to give others the right impression of yourself, to negoatiate effectively, and to influence others." If you make a red dragon Friendly, it will give you a Friendly warning not to steal its stuff or it will kill you. The Bluff skill indicated "that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time." It does not require that they continue, upon reflection, to think you are making sense or are really telling the truth. Bluff only makes something plausible and convinces the target to belive it. Eventually, if the PC pushes things too far, they are going to be upon against the +20 Sense Motive modifier ("Your bluff is way out there, almost too incredible to consider." - "Oh, it wasn't you, this time? Yeah, that's totally believable. Riiiight"). Of course, some characters could make such a check. It's possible to make a character who basically sounds believable, all the time. Other characters may not be sure what to believe when they talk to him. But as the book says, "Bluff... is not the suggestion spell" and characters are free to be skeptical. Specifically, Bluffing someone that you are 20' tall, even if possible, is useless, because they can see you and the effects of your Bluff check will be countered by the evidence of their eyes. Also, the highest level of Bluff difficult is "almost too incredible to consider." Literally too incredible to consider is not a possible result of Bluff, by the rules. Also, "Bluffing requires interaction between you and the target." If the other PCs simply punch him every time he starts talking, Bluffing is not possible. [/QUOTE]

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