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Message: <blockquote data-quote="grimslade" data-source="post: 3745797" data-attributes="member: 6061">A secular or agnostic ranger is a fighter, barbarian or rogue with the right feat and skill choices. The scout was a pretty close representation but was too weak a combatant. I would have been comfortable with the ranger not being in the initial 4E PHB. The ranger needs a better defined schtick. Archer is a one I suppose, but the toe to toe TWF is out of place. Hit and run tactics, ambushing, and stealth are all hallmarks of the rogue but fit the ranger too. Woodcraft is a solid trait but easily duplicated by feats and skills. Maybe they are masters of using the terrain/environment in a fight? I don't have any good answers.The divine spells work for me over arcane. I always thought of rangers as shamanistic in their reverance for the land. No religion or deities just an attunement to the natural world. Arcane magic always seems invasive and manipulative to me.</blockquote>